To find all-female environments really difficult

[violettttt]

I have recently started a new job, and everyone is female, so about 25 women of varying ages. That said, most are under 30.

I was working in a predominately male environment before (about 70:30) and found it very easy. We had a laugh, there were no cliques and it felt very relaxed.

I'm going to sound very sexist, so let me say I know some women don't do this and working with men isn't always easy either, It depends on the individual. But when women are in a group it can often feel like school all over again. Gossiping, cliques, snide looks, secret laughing etc.

In this new job I feel isolated, all the women have their little groups and don't like newcomers getting involve. They all have secret online chats, and I've seen then exchange knowing looks with each other and laughing. They spend their lunchtimes gossiping and it feels like a sixth form common room. I've tried to get involved but it's not very inclusive

I don't hate women - I am one! But I'm finding this working environment quite hard to deal with

So many people want to believe that there are no differences in typical character traits between men and women. But I think anyone who has spent time in groups of males or females knows that there are. Sorry this doesn't help you OP, but anyone telling you that you're effectively imagining this or that the sex of the group is irrelevant has got their head in the sand.

Every group has its own dynamic, and there are different positive and negative traits associated with groups dominated by men and women. (And there are of course groups that have the 'opposite' traits and groups that don't follow these traits at all.)

Women eh? All bitches and cliques, and bullying. Which men just don't seem to do, do they!

Women can be a nightmare when they clique up together, and certain types of women can be staggeringly two-faced when they choose to be. It's even harder to deal with in a working context than a social one. Just one of the reasons I have more male friends than female, and am generally more comfortable working with men than women. YANBU at all imho, I totally get it.

Some people are just arseholes regardless of sex. I've worked in both female dominated and male dominated teams and enjoyed both but generally worked with lovely people. Possibly the type of arsehole-ery can tend to differ a bit between the sexes. I do think that sometimes when women aren't nice they can gang up on others whereas men's aggression tends to be more individual?

I know what you mean, I had a year of P/T working at home and spent a lot of time in the school playground mums really difficult. I don't know what it was, it wasn't just people have friendships with certain people but really cliquey. (People disappearing off into little groups so they could gossip etc).

I'm not sure what it is. My theory is that women tend to put more stock in their social status and popularity than men. Perhaps that leads to people feeling insecure and acting maliciously.

"gossiping" is a term used about women, typically to diminish what they talk about. A group of men talking about football is never dismissed as such. "bitching" is also not applied to men, even if they have the same or similar behaviours.
I really despair with this kind of stereotyping.

@AssassinatedBeauty well there's only 4 of them working at my place of work and 3 of them don't really do socialising/staff room. Maybe they're secretly on the WhatsApp group who knows?
They're not the ones that reduced a young woman to tears several times and made her have lunch in her car to avoid awkwardness though.

That being said I don't find a predominately male working environment comfortable or preferable either. It comes with it's own issue.
Maybe I just don't like people in general.

I know, @RebelRogue, women are terrible aren't they? Just prone to bullying others all the time when in group, bitching and gossiping about them too. Awful that women are like that. Male dominated workplaces are so much nicer for everyone. What can be done about how unpleasant women are to each other, all the time?

I prefer mixed environments best - I think it brings out the best in everyone.

@AssassinatedBeauty the sarcasm is lost on me. And I'm not saying all women all the time. Is a NAWALT necessary now?
I was just pointing out that what OP described is very possible,it's really shit to deal with and through no fault of her own.

I love being in the company of all women. But I can understand some groups of women might not be fabulous.

@violettttt how long have you been there?

Not really one of the Sisterhood are you OP

Nor are her work colleagues by the sound of it.

AssassinatedBeauty you are putting words in people's mouths!

Women can be total bitches. Are you trying to tell me you have never encountered the sort of situation that the OP is talking about? Well done if you haven't. I've experienced this type of behaviour many times, from woman of varying ages.

Unfortunately some woman I've met seem to only be able to create a friendship or start a conversation by gossiping and bitching.

Thankfully not all woman are like this, I'm certainly not. But this behaviour is the reason why most of my close friends are male.

I'm not denying it's happening, at all. You'll find I gave some suggestions for how to handle it. However the suggestion that all female workplaces are likely to be the same is sexist, and the idea that women are naturally more unpleasant than men is offensive. Sadly lots of people on this thread are happy to join in with outlining exactly how dreadful they find women in the workplace.

and the idea that women are naturally more unpleasant than men is offensive.

True and it's bullshit too. It's definitely not something I've said/thought or a statement I agree with.

I prefer mixed environments too.

I’ve found in all female environments there is a kind of viciousness that can deconstruct your entire personality and destroy you completely as a person that just doesn’t happen in other environments. I can honestly say I would hands down prefer to be sexually harrassed than a victim of female bullying. Both have happened to me and there is no contest which is worse.

At least if you’re sexually harassed you know what’s happened. Female bullying is normally gaslighting extraordinaire and they literally try to destroy you piece by piece while everybody around you is insisting that they are the loveliest, kindest most sympathetic, generous person in the whole world.

Just one of the reasons I have more male friends than female, and am generally more comfortable working with men than women

Wow, go you

I was hearing this sort of thing forty years ago. Women are gossipy /cliquey /bitches /jealous /difficult in the workplace. Men are great /easy going /great banter /fun. I've been working since the 1970s, ( when I heard this a lot). Some people are nice colleagues, others not. Gender irrelevant.

@Dancingtothebeat REALLY? Fucking really?!?

OP how old are you and for how many years have you worked full time?

I'm happiest around women and have no problem with an all-female team. You're new, give it time and you'll soon be more involved . Just be friendly and nice.
.

I think that some people are arses, regardless of sex. However, although arsehood may not have anything to do with being male or female, the way the arse channels their spiteful behaviour has a hell of a lot to do with the social expectations they've been brought up under.

Women aren't intrinsically nastier than men, but nasty women will be nasty in ways that are more socially expected from women.

You can have equally toxic all-male workplaces, toxic all-female workplaces and toxic mixed-sex workplaces, but I bet that statistically, they'll be horrible working environments in different ways.

In my experience men gossip more than women, but they gossip with other men (not women) and so you won’t know. Often while gossipping they will also get their next job lined up, while women often need to apply for the same job.

On the other end of the spectrum, female managers tend to get promoted because of exceptional facilitation, co-ordination, or communication skills i.e. women have to be extroverts in order to be promoted (introverted women rarely get promoted outside of highly technical roles) and if overly so can appear as bitchy.