to be worried about "4% tax rises every year for 15 years just to keep the nhs functioning at its current level"

[traciebanbanjo]

According to a think tank. But even if it's only 1/4 of that it's still a huge amount. I don't know how I would ever affod that much.

And they say that's just to keep it at its current level. It's the main headline on LBC and in all the papers.

I'm very worried about coming tax rises

The thing that they seem to be totally ignoring in this report is that throwing more money at a bad system doesn't fix the system, there aren't any real changes mentioned for reducing the expenditure within the system, I certainly would not be able to afford to pay extra tax for the NHS.
And especially when they are already not making employers pay NI and giving the rich people tax breaks and now they expect the ordinary working PAYE employees to pick up the slack, no no just no!

Waspnest, GPs already hold clinics for many chronic conditions. What happens when someone has several conditions which are related to a long standing illness. For example, eye and foot problems caused by diabetes. Should the diabetes be treated for free but the foot problems be chargeable?

My bIL is in oz and they have just paid $8k out of their own pocket for his heart surgery. They pay 1/3, their insurers pay 1/3 and the government pay 1/3. They also had to deal with all the invoices and admin themselves which was hard going. It might work well for a GP appointment but if you have a chronic condition?

The NHS is quite good value for money currently. I don't want to move to paid system but I wiould like it to provide less cover and be more basic.

The basic rate of tax and NI for most people is32%. I thkn that's pretty high. Next band is 42% (and top band is 47% plus you have no single person allowance etc etc and for some a graduate tax of 9% on top of that). I thiknk that's very high taxation. Also we have removed loads of people from income tax entirely with a very high single person allowance so those people of course couldn'[t care less how high tax is.
To take 50% of income away before you even start and then add on high stamp duties, council tax- mine is £3200 a year, inheritance tax - I paid it when my father died, insurance premium tax which goes up and up, VAT which started out around 7% and is now a massive 20% we are taxed at ever turn. It is ridiculously high and if you compared it to 1970s taxes where my NHS father was paying an upper 65% tax rate he also had tax relief on mortgage interst, child tax allowances, much more generous pension tax relief allowances, tax relife when covenanting money etc etc.. We have stripped out the tax reliefs and yet still have high rates.

I would like us to strip out a lot of what we provide on the NHS. We should look at how we can provide less cover eg abroad people often have to provide their own food in hospital (that's win win as you avoid what goes for "food" in the NHS).

I do feel a bit short changed. I pay masses and masses of tax and yet have seen my GP once in 12 years. Obviously I am very very lucky I am just about never ill but I certainly don't feel I get much back.

GFord mum no one is obliged to take your mum in and do tests.

Well we have Labour's Gordon Brown to thank for PFI!!

Wasp I hope you don't get a serious diagnosis of anything.

Gford Is there anyone caring for your mum so she isn't calling 999 all the time? Can you get her to call a friend or relative instead?

I wonder why we are constantly being presented with the idea that the NHS is so unfit for purpose when as recently as last summer it was ranked the best healthcare system in the world...It came top largely because of its efficiency and affordability, despite being squeezed financially.

Er, you might like to read the full report on that. They said it was a ‘top healthcare provider’ because it did well in equality of access, admistrative efficiency and ease of access. But in the measure that really matters ‘health outcomes’ it came bottom along with the US.

So you’ll get all your letters sent out on time and you’ll probably see a doctor: they just won’t cure you.

What we really need are more taxpayers to support the increasing numbers of long-lived retirees we have in the UK. Sadly the baby boomers didn't create enough British babies to keep up the tax base to support their pensions and their health needs, so either they get neglected or the money needs to come from somewhere else.

Blue personally I'd say that the NHS would be responsible for the monitoring of the diabetes e.g. A1C tests but that individuals should pay for their own foot care etc. But I think my views are coloured by the fact that my MIL has had type 2 for 20 years and has never seriously bothered trying to properly control it (has been told she should be on insulin rather than metformin but won't switch because then she 'won't be able to eat what she wants') but fully expects the NHS to pick up the pieces via free foot care, eye checks and now all the care associated with the onset of diabetes related dementia.

I honestly think that some people will only change their lifestyle if there is a financial incentive to do so. The mindset of people needs to change if the NHS is to survive.

I do feel a bit short changed. I pay masses and masses of tax and yet have seen my GP once in 12 years. Obviously I am very very lucky I am just about never ill but I certainly don't feel I get much back.

Do you feel you need services you're not being offered? Because otherwise isn't this like resenting paying your car insurance if you don't have an accident that year?

My 2 year will be having open heart surgery shortly. I'm in a Facebook group for parents of children with the same condition. Some of them are saving up for their child's surgery. I'm eternally grateful for the NHS meaning DD can have the treatment she needs before it gets worse and would definitely be happy to pay more tax to help.

I was in our GP's surgery this morning picking up a repeat prescription form for my husband's asthma medication, and noticed a poster politely requesting patients to go to the pharmacist to buy their own OTC painkillers, antihistamines and cold and flu remedies rather than asking the doctors to prescribe them. Surely the NHS should absolutely refuse to prescribe anything that can cheaply be bought OTC? The rules over who can get free prescriptions also needs to be much more tightly means tested. Perhaps everyone should be required to buy an annual prescription pre-payment card.

Life but that's the point. I want the NHS to be there for when I do get a serious illness that I can't treat myself. I actually avoid GPs if I can, if I get a cough or a cold I'll wait a couple of weeks because I believe that the chances are it will get better (and because I'm generally youngish and fit, it does) but I know people who actually go along after a day or two with a sore throat and I think that having to pay a fiver would make them think twice about getting an unnecessary appointment.

"I do feel a bit short changed. I pay masses and masses of tax and yet have seen my GP once in 12 years. Obviously I am very very lucky I am just about never ill but I certainly don't feel I get much back."

You perhaps haven't YET. But just wait until you are old.

The NHS does need more money . I’ve worked in the NHS for 15 years and I’ve never seen it as bad as it is now. Weve cut everything and we’re still being asked to make savings. I would focus on increasing the tax burden on corporations and closing down tax avoidance loopholes rather than forcing individuals to cough up more tax. I also wouldn’t be insisting on forcing through the expensive shit show that is Brexit

The thing about feeling shortchanged is by the time many young people need the NHS it won't exist in its current form.

It's been underfunded for decades and there is no quick fix.

Lost I agree, I think everyone (barring under 18s) should have to have a prepaid prescription certificate, it would be a way for us all to directly contribute to the NHS budget.

It suits the government to make out it isn’t working there’s no way on earth they could increase tax by 4% every year . It’s funny how they traipse out this rubbish the minute we nhs staff dare ask for a rate of inflation pay rise .

I also think you can’t just look at income, everyone needs to pay.

The thing about feeling shortchanged is by the time many young people need the NHS it won't exist in its current form.

I agree - I would happily pay more tax for the NHS, but it does feel galling to imagine paying this now and it all being gone when I get to my own neediest period. It's a bit like how I feel about my pension - its provisions are pretty generous (I'm an academic) so in theory it should be a sound investment, but I have zero faith the scheme will even still exist when I hit 70, so it sometimes feels like I just give a charitable donation of £200 a month to some random old people...

I think these comments are all worth repeating.

I wonder why we are constantly being presented with the idea that the NHS is so unfit for purpose when as recently as last summer it was ranked the best healthcare system in the world (Research carried out by Commonwealth fund in the US of eleven wealthy nations). It came top largely because of its efficiency and affordability, despite being squeezed financially.

* It always amuses me with these threads where people refuse to listen to the facts (a bit like Brexiters). The NHS is, by every measure, underfunded. Both as a proportion of GDP, and relative to population (both thanks to ageing and immigration).*

I work in the sector on an international basis. Despite what you 'may have heard', the Australian system is actually in crisis, partly due to horrendous wage inflation (Orthopods earning $4m a year), and partly due to underfunding of the state sector.

...There are incidences of waste, but the same goes for every healthcare system. In fact, the NHS is officially ranked as the most efficient in the developed world (albet certainly not the best).

Most people are posting based on how they "feel" or what they have read in the media or individual experiences. None of which give a true overall picture. It is a bit like the Brexit campaign though. You can tell people the facts until you are blue in the face but people prefer to believe the lies (£350milion extra a week on the NHS anyone?) because it tallies with their personal prdjudices/preferences or they belive the messages from the government which definitely has an agenda for the the NHS . We may certainly need to look at the NHS againa and continue to make it efficient but it needs more money and we have to mpay more for it. People just think taxation is somehow a worse way of raising money which I don't agree with at all.

Exactly my fears “MargaretCavendish”

I think some people should read this article

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/350-million-for-the-nhs-how-the-brexit-bus-pledge-is-coming-true/

I do think that if the income tax rate went up 1% (so 21% and 41%) with that extra 1% ringfenced for the NHS most people would not have a problem with it to keep the NHS.

One thing they do need to look at is how they buy in services. I know some are saying you shouldn't have IVF on the NHS (I am guessing those are people who never had to struggle with infertility), but if I take that as an example, there was a report I read a year or so ago that, as each care trust buys in IVF services individually (whether in hospital or contracted out to a private clinic), the trusts across the country can pay anything between about £2,000 and £12,000 per cycle for basic IVF.

Rather than each trust buying it in and ending up with a postcode lottery, there could be a central purchasing group who negotiate a price for hospitals across the country to get the most economical treatment.

IVF is the only example I know, but there must be similar price issues for other treatment areas that should be unified as the NHS as a whole has a better 'buying power' than separate small trusts.

As soon as I heard this on the radio this morning, my first thought was that it is propaganda and scaremongering; and has been deliberately engineered to try and make people start to think that privatisation is the only answer.
Me? Cynical? I can almost read people's minds as they peruse the inevitable articles in certain sections of the press already....

..."Who wants to pay more taxes? Why should we have to have to pay through the nose for other people's healthcare? Let's just all pay for our own"...