Teacher recruitment and retention AIBU

[WellAlwaysHaveParis]

I know this topic has been talked about so many times, but I’m genuinely interested and also getting quite worried about it, so would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Just saw an advert online for teacher training (I’ve seen so many lately) and it’s really got me thinking.

I trained as a teacher with School Direct a couple of years ago, but left two months into the course.

For me, the reasons for leaving were the workload, the total lack of support from SLT (they claimed to be very supportive, but in practice were not supportive at all) and the lack of training and direction I had.

I felt as if my course tutors and the SLT at the school felt that teaching would come naturally to everyone on the training course, and that they just needed to encourage it out of us a little. For example, a lot of the course tutors came through Teach First, where resilience is (rightly) prioritised. They often told me to build up my resilience (fair point, but how?), rather than giving me key actions to work on and improve on.

What can we do??

I find that most of the teachers leaving are those who have not taught for years and years. Those who have tend to be more resilient and have more of a fuck it attitude, plus there's been 20 million new initiatives over the last 25 years, so many of us have seen a ton of crap before, although not quite on this scale. Worst bit about being older and more experienced is we are the ones they want out. There's a huge drive where I am to employ unqualified teachers so soon they won't need any qualified ones anyway.

I’m a senior leader in a primary school and I love my school and my job. That’s what’s keeping me there for now. However I HATE the workload and I am considering my options for a way out. I am missing out on my child’s life far too much. All I want is to be able to pick her up from school once, maybe twice, a week and to have a weekend without working every so often but there is no way my school will let a senior leader be part time. This is ‘frowned upon’ (as the part time classroom teachers are).

More part-time options would increase retention, in my experience of talking to lots of teachers!

I think the solution to retention is pay and conditions. Too many staff are being cut in struggling schools, as budgets dip and so does intake as they get farmed over to 'better' schools in the area. This leads to an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion in all directions.

Saying that, I'm in my eight year and going strong. Had 6mo maternity in 2016-17 and now back as head of department and I do genuinely love my job. I wouldn't leave where I am right now for any other job.

I don’t think the solution is to increase part time opportunities, it’s to cut contact time so that the full time job is actually compatible with life.

But that’s never going to happen.

Noblegiraffe - yes you’re right.
Although I would still love to be a part time senior leader with a manageable workload!

My school is cutting TA support for next year. This is necessary to make the budget work but it will mean more workload for teachers from more break duties, more marking, less support with special needs.... this won’t help the retention situation.

Behaviour and lack of respect for teachers is one of my biggest issues. I've taught in everything from leafy middle-class schools to schools where half of the children I "taught" were simply looking forward to a life on the dole, and admitted as much.

I currently spend a lot of my time demoralised, picking up deliberately broken pieces of equipment, repairing and maintaining children's books (which they should maintain themselves, but a lot couldn't care less and rip/ doodle/ rather throw glue up the ceiling than use it to stick sheets into their books), tidying up, because children will simply up and leave by the ringing of the bell and I have to let them go, because I will be the one getting into trouble if they're late for their next lesson, so have to pick up books and equipment simply left.

Then I report to parents, who know my job better than I do and who will rather accuse me of picking on their child than admit their child may choose to misbehave.

I deal with SLT seemingly hell-bent on catching me (any staff, really) out on not having kept up with my marking/ data collection/ planning for next year. I already work 12 hours or more a day and barely see my own children, but it's not enought to keep up with my work.

And I get it. The curriculum is not suitable for the kids we have, who spend their time being carers to young siblings for lack of a second parent, being carers to addict adults, going out to work after school to support their families or facing the prospect of never having a job, because there is little left in the area for those not academically gifted (of which there are a lot).

I'm not supported in my school and will be leaving shortly. I will be going back to a leafy middle class area and that will be my last attempt at staying in the job. I'm too old now to put up with the poor behaviour and lack of respect for anything and anyone that comes with working in a sink school.

The tragic thing is that the kids actually really like me. Nothing they do is personal and outside of the classroom we have great conversations, but they cannot cope with the demands of school life. I've stayed here for just over a year and that is long in my school - most teachers only last a term and many supply staff turn up once and never again. It's a school where less contact time, more support staff and more prep time as well as smaller classes would make all the difference to staff, but the school cannot afford any of that.

So I'm gone, before the effect this year has had on my wellbeing can take a proper hold. Before the blemish on my excellent record of student achievement in my subject becomes too much and makes me unemployable in better schools. But I feel sad for all the kids, who will miss out on the opportunities I gave them and who will be faced with yet another year of an unstable department. And I know they will have even less trust in the next person, who will start off by saying they're there to stay.

The problem with more experienced staff is they are more expensive. Too many good and experienced teachers go for interview but lose out to someone costing half what they do.

I finally decided to get out and handed my notice in last week after 20+ years in the classroom.
The final straw was when I told DH that I couldn't go away for a few days at half-term as I haven't even started my reports. First time ever I haven't been able to fit it into my working weeks.
I went back FT almost 2 years ago after 8 years PT. I loved working PT but had to give up my responsibilities and missed being seen as a key part of the team. However 2 years in has been enough for me to realise it's not the job for me anymore.
I still love teaching (and I'm a really good teacher) but I'm not prepared to give over my life to it, and I can't find a way to make it fit in with family life.
I work in a great school, but even we are starting to struggle to recruit. There's no more NQTs knocking at our door. Last year we lost 1 teacher to workload/stress, this year we've lost 2 so far. I'll count as a relocation. I'm London based and we're also losing staff who cannot afford to live here. I work with teachers in their 30s and 40s who are still in flatshares.
I work in a primary school and I watch my fellow child-free teachers get into work just after 7am and leave just after 6pm (I say watch, but they are not hours I keep - though yesterday I did 10 hours in school, 2 hours at home and I'm up before 6am because I've got bits to do).
I wonder how long they will be able to work those hours, they are certainly not the hours I worked 20 years ago.
I'm also fed up of too many SLT. I'm not in an academy but we have 1 head, 2 deputy heads and 2 assistant heads all out of class (and a business manager and IT support - both FT). All 7 of them are on higher salaries than any of our teaching staff, and I'm fed up hearing how we need to manage the budget and how we are not replacing TAs. When I started only the head was out of class. I find it ridiculous.
I'm also fed up of the curriculum. I teach in Y6 and the new SATs have sucked out what little life there was left in the curriculum.
I'm lucky, we've got a London property. DH has been working at home and we've decided to cash up and move out before our DCs hit secondary school. I genuinely worry who will be left to teach them.
To those asking what needs to change. We need a political change, we need to move away from league tables. Parents on here are always saying league tables don't matter, but they do. To parents, schools and government. Whist they matter we will teach to test, and primary children deserve a much richer curriculum than that.

Yes, I think loads of parents do care about league tables, results, lots of homework in primary etc. I have a year 2 child doing SATS and despite the school trying as hard as they can to make it low key I hear so many playground conversations asking about results, preparation, practise papers and the like. The poor teachers look so stressed and this is only year 2!

I have also been really appalled as a parent how much criticism the teachers get for what are so obviously decisions that are out of their hands. My DC’s school is academised and there have been some shit controversial decisions and recruitment problems since. Parents have been very vocal about blaming individual teachers for this and do not believe me when I point out that many of these decisions seem to be made at MAT or government level . Not to mention social media reports. And this is in a lovely school where the kids seem mostly happy.

I'm just finishing teacher training. I chose to do a shortage subject due to the bursary being roughly equivalent to what I warned before career changing. However, the starting salary is much less. For this reason, I'm seriously considering not sticking around and going to do something that pays a wage I can afford to live off.

This is a question from a parent rather than a teacher so forgive me as I don't know all the ins and outs of things. I am also a school parent governor and see the strain our staff are under.

What I don't understand is why the unions don't do something about this. Teaching is quite a unionised job. Why don't they agitate and do a work to rule or strike or even just make it widely known the conditions their members are working under? Just an advertising campaign or similar to bring the way teachers are treated into the public eye?

From a mum’s point of view...

Our local private school’s head is leaving, head of preprep also and several teachers. We’re moving school because it’s been going downhill for a while, luckily have another school same distance away.

We thought long and hard about this. We feel we have little choice. This is our children’s education we are talking about (and it costs a lot). We haven’t got the time to wait for things to change anymore.

Thing is, the teachers get stressed and despondent, the TAs follow suit, the parents get snippy, the children sense it... I know other parents are worried 😟. It’s the major topic of conversation every day. I think parents will vote with their feet as we are.

The profession also needs to become more part time friendly. The discrimination I've faced is unreal. Thr union agreed it was discrimination but seemed unable to do anything about it. I had to move schools eventually as i could see it was never going to change.

Fowlis Yes! The school we are moving to is more part time friendly for teachers and they seem happier. I was a bit when we went to look around but I understand it now. The mental load is huge and a day or two “off” (some of the teachers do other things, coaching or writing) makes a huge difference.

One teacher in particular does three days and freelances (writing ed material) on the other days. The fact that he is passionate enough to want to write educational material speaks volumes. He seems a great teacher and HAPPY.

The workload is intense and the only solution I see is for contact hours to be cut so teachers have more planning time.

But isn't it madness that teaching for 4 1/2 days takes longer than 1/2 day plus evenings, weekends and a chunk of the holidays to plan for? I think the curriculum is unsuitable. In this country, we have a huge tail of underachievement which gets longer every year, because the expectations in each year are not achievable for many children. Why do the powers that be look at what children are doing in similar countries with more successful education systems, at each stage?

I am appalled that teachers feel like this.

I’m an English teacher with 11 years experience, consistently good lesson ratings and the best results in our school for A-level. But I’m off out of teaching this year. Finding it hard to know what to do really. But I cannot do this to myself or my family anymore.

I had a miscarriage at nearly 12 weeks six months ago and only took two days off because I was worried about my exam groups missing out. School did nothing to support me and made me feel guilty for having any time off at all. Then they let me be verbally abused by students and parents for even having two days off.

There are an increasing amount of schools where SLT see their staff as a means to an end, rather than the key to success. My current head is very focused on student moral but never mentions his staff- except to praise those flighing themselves to death.

I’ve been teaching for 14 years and, as much as I love my job, I’m starting to think of an escape plan. The pressure and guilt I feel on an almost daily basis is starting to take its toll.

angular, I can’t speak for teachers but WRT strikes from an NHS point of view...

They just don’t seem to work for many reasons. I could go on all day about this but I think main ones (of course these are massive generalisations) are:-

Too many unions so power is diluted - particularly a problem in teaching but even when unions do work together (e.g. the recent-ish junior doctors strike) the strikes don’t really work

Public perception that staff chose the job and went in with their eyes open so have no right to complain.

Public perception that the job is easy.

Falsely high salaries advertised to the public (eg a top salary presented as normal) so they should be happy to work all these hours

A lack of understanding and respect about job roles

Hassle involved for the public dilutes support

At at the end of the day there is a perception that teaching is easy, that even if they work hard in term time they get good hours and school holidays off, that it should be a vocation and staff should be happy to do it.

Just one more point (possibly the most important one!): the fact that teaching and similar jobs are portrayed as a good job for life with a good salary so how can teachers ever complain. If the people you want support from feel they have no hope of even a job, let alone a ‘good’ one then you are fighting a losing battle.

I have been teaching for 26 years so am an old timer and have never seriously considered doing anything else : applied for a few jobs out of teaching but related. I can't crack SLT promotion so have got stuck , which is another issue. There is a glut of 'talent' at that level.

One thing that has massively changed is - for want of a better word- gratitude for long servers. When I first started teaching, anyone who had done 25 years for a Local Authority, for example, got a gift. Something pretty cheesy like a carriage clock but it was a recognition! there was no PRP, just pay; no UPS and people in promoted positions who genuinely wanted the job. there was Ofsted and SATs but far less pressure in general (100% coursework in English GCSE!) It was actually, in hindsight, lovely. Kids could still be little shits, and there was less aspiration, that's true. But senior staff were more supportive (genuinely supportive : would take kids aside for stern words etc.; they never passed the issue back down tot he poor classroom teacher to do 100000 things about until it was deemed appropriate for 'intervention') . I was a HOY until recently and the job changed beyond recognition in a five to six year time span , form quite an autonomous job, focused on supporting staff and students with behaviour to some kind of Dumbledore figure who was expected to solve all the word's ills, and a whipping boy for SLT and parents.

Class sizes were smaller, too,and there was far less obsession with setting - which, for me in my subject, was pleasant.

A Level class sizes were about 12 and the students tended to be able : or at least they wanted to do the subject, most of them!

Ah, those were the days!

I do think decline in (support for) poor behaviour, coupled with increasing school sizes are my biggest issues.

Totally correct toostressy

I’m leaving after four years. I went into teaching with a huge passion for it, and I’m a good teacher who loves being with the kids, but I just look at the job and think, I can’t do this for another 40 years. SLT are so unforgiving, and I just can’t see a path for me in teaching. I don’t want to become SLT as it’s less of the bits I like (working with the kids) and more rubbish about data and complaining parents and new initiatives etc etc

So I’m left in a situation where I’m stuck in a job I don’t really want to progress in and at 30 that’s not exactly ideal. Furthermore I look ahead to when my own children are in school and I just can’t see how I can get the job to work for me. Go part time and you completely stall your career and it’s so looked down upon in my school.

I love teaching and I love the kids but it’s just a blame game. Behaviour, children struggling with Sen, poor results, all the teachers fault. I just looked at our dep Head one day, 30 years in and still stressed, over worked, trodden down, and thought, there really is no light at the end of the tunnel in teaching. So I’m getting out.

We tried going on strike in the Gove years. It was technically about pay/pensions because we’re not allowed to strike about things like ridiculously rushed curriculum changes. We don’t have the general public support, on MN there were threads of parents talking about the inconvenience of having to take a day off, of how teachers should try working in the ‘real world’.

Nurses get the ‘angels’ narrative in the media, teachers get ‘workshy whinger’.

So there’s really no point in striking, it didn’t change anything, and that’s why teachers are quitting instead.

The DfE have had their head in the sand (were actually criticised by a government committee recently for this) about recruitment and retention. Every news story about it has had the DfE line ‘Teaching remains an attractive profession’ at the end. Last year their contribution to reducing workload was to put out a poster. This year they put out a video. Things are getting serious.

I taught for a decade and got it last year.

I hadn't even realised how my stress and anxiety were related so much to my job until I left, it's amazing now! I just thought I was a naturally stressed person who worked long hours. Turns out I'm naturally quite laid back!

I changed careers, an now a childminder, earn more then I did as sent full time, still get to be with children all day which I live, but my god it's an easy job compared with teaching! I feel happy, relaxed, I laugh lot, hardly any paperwork, the parents really appreciate me and I have a life and see my children as well!

Best thing I ever did. Don't miss teaching at all. Now I welcome Ofsted into my home instead of constantly worrying.