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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About other child at playgroup?

28 replies

TrustyPatches · 18/05/2018 21:31

More of a WWYD! My DD is 3 and is very sociable. We attend playgroups regularly, however I changed the time slot at one of our regulars so we aren't friendly with as many people there although I do go with a friend and her child (who is a good friend of my daughter's) and know one or two faces.
For the past two weeks a little girl (similar age or slightly older) has been very rude and unkind to my daughter, even when I'm right there. Think "I don't like you", "you can't play", you're not my friend" etc. Typical I suppose and I know it happens but it upsets her deeply and I don't understand the cause of it as she's not trying to play with this group of children. I say things like "Please don't speak to her that way/I don't think she likes that so can you stop please" and it stops for that session but my DD will be weepy and emotional for the rest of the day.
She loves this playgroup other than that 30 second encounter so I don't want to dent her confidence by not going but I feel like I'm not doing enough. WIBU to speak to the child's parent? What would you say? She doesn't supervise, often sits with her back to the children but I have noticed this child is paired off with another and they are unkind together. They have been rude to me and other parents/children at the group too!

OP posts:
Stompythedinosaur · 18/05/2018 21:35

Just keep addressing the child calmly "That isn't a kind thing to say" and then distract with a toy or activity. Speak loudly enough that other parents know what is going on (that you aren't randomly picking on their child). If the child appears to be very focused on your child unkindly I would speak to the parents or group leader, I'd come from a point of asking what they would like you to do or say when their child says x to your child.

TeaBelle · 18/05/2018 21:36

Hmmmm, I think it's tricky but I would use it as an opportunity to help your dd to deal with unkindness, and try not to demonize the other child too much (easier said than done I know). I would just encourage dd to walk away from any behaviout8that upsets her, and find a friend who makes her smile and who she wants to play with.

Audree · 18/05/2018 21:46

I would be more direct with the other child; I would say: “That’s rude” or “Leave [dd] alone”.
The other parent doesn’t seem too interested in dealing with their child’s misbehaviour.
I’ve met someone like this who would deliberately position herself with her back turned to her child while other parents in the park tried to keep the misbehaviour under control.

slowlywiltingpetal · 18/05/2018 22:00

It's going to get harder when your daughter goes to school, so this is a time that it'd be good to try and deal with both. I wouldn't interact with the child over 'That's not very nice' then distract DC and if the child persists call a playgroup leader over, explain, they can deal with it as I'm sure it happens more than you think.

With PFB with something similar we let staff no, I'm a big fan of positive reinforcement, in fact it's still possibly the main parenting method I use. So say to DC, it does matter they don't like you, I think you're a really nice person and you have your friends you play with, x/y/z. They all really like you and enjoy playing with you. You're really special to me and your friends, don't worry about the little girl, we can't be friends with everyone.

I would say if it happens next week, you address it, then it happens the week after, you speak to the staff again & the leader, say it's having a negative impact that can ruin a whole day. Please can you address this further.

PFB was adored by so many, it was a shock when a child took a disliking to them. It ended up as bullying even though DC was 2/3. In the end the child got removed, due to data protection we weren't told anything than possible underlying issues.

I think positive reinforcement is the best way forward, how is DC with their confidence? Unfortunately stronger children sniff out the ones that won't necessarily retaliate.

TrustyPatches · 18/05/2018 22:47

Thanks all for the great advice. Thought I was being "that" mum but it really does set the tone for the rest of the day. DD is a super confident child and will stand her ground but this girl just really gets under her skin. I've explained that we can't be friends with everyone but she gets really stuck on what this child has said to her and is very teary afterwards. I know it will happen at school no doubt but it's so hard to watch and feel like you're doing nothing!

OP posts:
AjasLipstick · 18/05/2018 22:50

Be very brisk.....it seems odd that she's super confident but gets so emotional about this meanness for such a long time afterwards OP so are you sure you're not fuelling it a bit? I mean by over-discussing it with her?

Move on quickly and if she repeatedly returns to the subject, just change it....jolly her along "Oh that was a very silly girl to say things like that...we won't waste our time talking about that!" sort of thing.

TrustyPatches · 18/05/2018 22:54

Ajas That's a good point actually she may have heard me talking about it so I will be careful not to from now on! Although she did react in the same way the first time. I think it's just the way it's said, this girl plays exclusively with another child so I think she might feel a bit outnumbered perhaps?

OP posts:
EatTheChocolateTeapot · 18/05/2018 22:56

I would tell DD in advance to not worrry about what x says, she is just being silly (not in earshot of x) and to play away from her.
Then if the other girls starts, things like:”of course she can play” and move away. You don’t really want to get into argument with a unknown 3 years old.

Starlight2345 · 18/05/2018 22:56

Depends just 3 or 3 nearly 4 will be going to school in just over a year . Kids are mean , say horrible children . I would be encouraging her to sort it out herself. Stand by but she does have to learn with kids that speak act like this.

flapsicle · 18/05/2018 22:59

I’m sorry that’s happening to your DD, my DS would be sad too. It’s awful when the parents sit so far away when their child is misbehaving. We were at a soft play the other week and a small girl, around 2, was running riot - hitting, clambering up to stand on top of the ride-on coin operated cars etc, pushing other kids. She bit my DS and left a huge mark on his arm. A few other parents said they thought she had been brought by her granddad (if it was the man they thought he was sat reading a paper miles away Hmm )but no one knew who she was with.

elizabethdraper · 18/05/2018 23:00

Use it as a learning opportunity for your daughter.

Arm get with the words and actions she needs. You are not going to be there to fight her battles all the time.

This is the age where they learn self esteem and confidence. They learn to stand their corner or walk away, negotiation skills at

Let her fight her own battles

AjasLipstick · 18/05/2018 23:10

Don't mention the possibility of it happening before you get there...unless she does. Otherwise you're showing her to expect trouble before it's happened.

Deal with things as they happen, as you have been. Arm her with some responses. Do a bit of rolepay with her...playacting as it were. So you can get her to pretend to be the other child and have her say a mean thing...then you can demonstrate a good response.

For eg.

You're silly and you can't play with us!

Good I don't want to anyway....I'm going to do something fun without you being mean to me!

Or

Get away! You can't play!

No, you get away...I don't want to play with you anyway!

Then show her to walk away....teach her to use her voice loudly. A lot of children, girls especially, are taught to be quiet....let her know it's ok to be loud when someone's being mean.And to repeat what they're doing

Don't be mean to me! (in a loud voice)

I don't like that! Leave me alone! etc etc.

RayDropofGoldenSun · 18/05/2018 23:10

@slowlywiltingpetal I really like what you've said, I've pasted it into my notes to use on my own DD who's older but going through similar

TrustyPatches · 18/05/2018 23:20

Thanks Ajas that's great! I will definitely go through that with her pre-playgroup. It's a toughie as I do want her to learn to fight her own battles but she's they're so little still aren't they? This child is more 4 than 3, I've seen them in preschool uniform.
Flapsicle that's my absolute worst thing ever about soft play! Infuriating isn't it!

OP posts:
AjasLipstick · 18/05/2018 23:25

It does make a difference at that age...3-4 is a big leap. A good thing to do would be to make sure something bigger than this other child happens that DD can associate the place with....if there are any events coming up for example, you could volunteer to help with them...let DD see the place in a different light. We had a Christmas play at my DD's playgroup and she'd never really enjoyed going as it was quite a rowdy place but I volunteered to wrap the presents up and DD helped and she went on and on about that for so long. She loved it.

KeepServingTheDrinks · 18/05/2018 23:59

I admit, it's been a very long time since my strapping 16 yr old went to playgroups, but when I did she used to play with or near me.

So in this situation, I'd have initiated play/a game that was fun and then excluded the other child until she changed her tune.

They very quickly do.

And you don't have to do very much when they're that age to be fun and exciting... a game involving lifting them up, or bouncing on your knee (bumpy ride/riding the carriage, etc) and they're all queuing up to have a go. And then it's just a simple case of "oh no, only FRIENDS of DD can play xxx"

slowlywiltingpetal · 19/05/2018 04:39

I’ve just read my reply back, I was shattered & meant it doesn’t matter.

TY @RayDropOfGoldenSun DC’s have dealt with other children later on that saw they wouldn’t really retaliate, or that they were well behaved, I don’t know how children’s minds work. We dealt with similar during primary sadly.

There was a child who really had it in for DC, so they would go out of their way to try and get DC into trouble. Obviously not being morons if they got into trouble at school it was also reinforced at home.

I know each parent has their own method, but withdrawing a favourite toy is so much more effective, than say smacking or screaming at DC. I found just a change in the time of my voice, DC would be embarrassed or upset and go to their room and sulk for a bit.

When it comes to discipline in general, the praise sandwich works well, but adapted so you say to DC, what you just did was naughty, it was wrong because bla bla, you’re not usually naughty, so you’ve been told, please don’t do this again, or we will remove favourite toy till you can behave like a good boy/girl.

The only time I’ve ever raised my voice to DC, I think it was PFB, was when they wouldn’t listen and were determined to squash a spider. I’d said no please don’t do that so many times, spider was nearing death, so I raised my voice and said leave the spider alone. The look of shock on DC’s face said it all. I explained that spiders are useful because... it’s tiny so a lot more scared of us than we should be of it. It won’t hurt you in any way.

There’s a neighbour who you can hear screaming from 3 houses away, usually starting from half 7 till late at night. I just don’t think it’s effective taking your anger/frustration out on your child. I was born at a time when smacking/screaming was accepted, I vowed I would never do the same.

It works well as ex H is possibly slightly different in approach, to me they over react to the smallest things. Both DC can tell me anything, we have fun, they know that nothing is off limits. I think that’s nice as a parent that they feel they can approach you. I never felt like that with my parents. I would rather them educated with no worries, than say be filled with fear, too scared to ask something.

I don’t think it’s attachment parenting, I studied counselling & psychology, it just made sense that positive reinforcement would help them understand, why tormenting your sister isn’t a good idea. Or whatever other scenarios.

I’ve got friends who are teachers who are swore at by 5 year olds. The eldest is a teen and knows that swearing demonstrates a lack of imaginative communication.

I hope you all get the nastiness towards your DC sorted. I would keep communication as an adult to a minimum, as we’re all precious about our DC, if you tell another child once to not do something and they persist, it’s easier to get play group leader / teacher to deal with it. As they’re likely to be seen as authority figures to both parent and child.

I’ve said in other posts, as we’ve had the joy of SATs with the youngest, building up their self belief and self confidence via positive reinforcement has a lasting impression. So where ex H wants DC to get top grades, just trying hard and achieving their best is fine by me. Their happiness is paramount.

Strawberryfield12 · 19/05/2018 06:19

I’m sorry, but the other girl is bullying your daughter, you don’t have to tolerate it and try to be nice. Kick off the proper stink about the whole issue the very next time the girl starts to have a go at you DD. It’s not a one off, it’s a regular occurrence. If you kick off the other parent and staff will have to do something about it for once and not just wipe it under the carpet.

You need to show your daughter that bullying isn’t to be tolerated and also give her an example of addressing it and not just go home and suffer for the rest of the day.

TrustyPatches · 19/05/2018 09:08

Thanks all. I think I will definitely try a more direct approach should it happen again next week. I don't want her to think it's okay to be spoken to like that. Obviously the little girl not liking my DD isn't a problem because she can't be liked by everyone but it's the saying it to her that needs to be stopped as it is unkind.

OP posts:
faithinthesound · 19/05/2018 13:05

If I may offer a differing opinion?

I understand what you're trying to do, @slowlywiltingpetal and others, with these tactics of distraction/excluding the misbehaving child as a means of imposing natural consequences on her actions. However, they're little more than babies, and such higher order thinking is likely to be lost on them... instead, what they see is that bigger/stronger people can decide who gets to play and who doesn't, and that doesn't to me seem a precedent you really want to set.

Far better, IMHO, to model positive behavior/the right way to act. I liked what another person said about saying "that's rude/that's not a nice thing to say" and then moving on. Don't give the bad behavior more attention than it takes to quickly point out that it's wrong. Focus on the positive interactions.

Remember too that at that age, even negative attention is attention and therefore going out of your way to "punish" is likely to be counterproductive, no matter how well you may mean :)

credentials: am a primary school teacher. My students are older than this but for many of them the same principles apply when we're dealing with conflict resolution.

faithinthesound · 19/05/2018 13:11

Sorry, just saw something else I want to address. Please don't "kick off" about anything? if no one has raised this issue to the playgroup organizers, it's entirely possible they don't know about it. How would it be fair to bale them up about not acting on an issue they had no idea existed?

Please, if you're going to raise it (and actually I do advocate raising it), do so in a measured, calm manner. You're far more likely to get the results you're looking for.

Before anyone jumps in saying "yes but women/girls are socialized to be quite and polite, she should kick off because that's the only way things get done", let me just say that actually, no, in my experience, that's exactly the wrong way to "get things done", and entirely the best way to make yourself the #1 laughing stock of the staffroom for the following week.

We (educators of all ages) are human. We don't/can't possibly see everything. At least give yours the benefit of the doubt before deploying the "kick off" option.

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 19/05/2018 13:27

In this situation when DS was younger (as in 2) I would usually say "oh dear. Shall we go and find someone nicer and more friendly to play with?".

However nursery has taught him tougher ways (and he is now 3). It happened recently and he replied "you are ugly anyway", and when she complained to her mother I had to remove him in shame as he repeated more and more clearly "but she IS ugly. She is an UGLY girl."

I just think they all display unfortunate social behaviours at this age.

Strawberryfield12 · 19/05/2018 14:53

Hi Faithinthesound, since you are addressing my comment I will reply. I did suggest to kick off mainly because of the last sentence in the OP. So apart from being nasty to the other girl, the child has been rude to OP and other adults, OP has several times told her to be rude to her DD. If OP saw the child being rude to other parents, surely the organizers had to see it as well? That's a LOT of movement not to notice that something is not on, especially with the child's mother always having her back on and not supervising. I honestly think there is a huge amount of signs that childcare professionals should have picked upon, since it hasn't been just a single incident on a one particular day of the playgroup, it has been repeating from one week to another. Everything in the OP suggest that organizer just decided not to get involved.

Are you seriously having a jolly good laugh with your colleagues in the staff room about a parent who's child has been subjected to bullying for weeks, parent who after a number of measured attempts to stop that, has finally lost it? While I 100% agree that teachers are humans like everyone else and can't see everything, in theory they actually should have seen that and done everything to prevent it. Would you seriously find it funny to learn that because of your human error a child and a parent have been going through the hell for weeks?

AjasLipstick · 19/05/2018 15:00

entirely the best way to make yourself the #1 laughing stock of the staffroom for the following week

Strawberry I agree that the above is a particularly ugly statement and one designed to make parents worry about what staff think of them rather than worry about their child's welfare.

Pequena1984 · 19/05/2018 15:07

Ohhh, big deal, your daughter ran into someone who doesn't like here. Get over it, and stop being so protective, it happens to almost everyone. Your daughter will learn new skills to seek out and find other friends soon enough. These skills will last her a lifetime. If you intervene she'll turn into a snowflake that can't handle the normal ebb and flow in human relationships.