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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Narcissistic behaviour

39 replies

Noregrets25 · 17/05/2018 22:17

Hello
So i don’t want to say how I think my partner is narcissistic because I want an overall judgement if that makes sense?! I decided I would tell him tonight that I thought he was... it didn’t go well, currently he’s packing his bags..... so what do you think I s a narcissistic person... and because I assume we all have traits what traits would make you think’ go on pack your bags mate!!!’

OP posts:
toomuchtooold · 18/05/2018 08:22

its narcissistic to diagnose such a disorder without the required qualifications

You think so? I'd say that if you've lived with someone with NPD, diagnosing them (in your own head) is an act of self preservation. Their behaviour makes very little sense to anyone with a vaguely healthy view of the world and their abuse is insidious and incredibly petty, at times. I think that if you are dealing with someone with NPD and you don't know what it is, you're fighting blind, and they will drive you round the bend.
Having said that I don't understand why, if you knew the slightest thing about the disorder, why you'd confront a person with NPD. The whole disorder is designed to protect them from the toxic shame of realising they're not perfect. The chances of them letting in your opinion that they have NPD is zero. Some of them might pretend to listen and want to change but that'll either be a game of "look at me, I'm the most humble and open to change person out of all the people, I am the best" or simply they'll be biding their time to get you back for insulting them.
Or you know, alternatively, he could just be a bit of a dick.

Dontsayyouloveme · 18/05/2018 08:34

toomuchtooold couldn’t agree with you more. The poster that narcissisticly’ Wink posted that they think your a narcissist if you diagnose someone as that without the necessary qualifications, has clear never been on the receiving end of a narcissist! I didn’t need a qualification to KNOW that my ex husband is a vile narc.... I KNEW it by the suffering his vile behaviours caused me! Luckily I’m no longer co-dependant.

YouTheCat · 18/05/2018 08:42

Can you give some examples of his behaviour? What makes you think he's a narc?

I don't think many people would take kindly to being accused of having a personality disorder.

Gin96 · 18/05/2018 08:44

If he has npd you can't change them, they will suck all the love out of you and still want more, they are an empty vessel, a damaged sole. The egotistical self protects the vulnerable self, otherwise they can't cope and their world falls apart, that's why you can't change them.

toomuchtooold · 18/05/2018 09:00

Dontsayyouloveme

For me it was my mother.

It's funny to hear someome saying that armchair diagnosis is narcissistic, because to me, refusing to believe the evidence of your own eyes and instead deferring to authority is a very typical NPD trait! People often think of NPD as like straight narcissism, a person who just thinks they are awesome, thinks they know everything... my experience with my mother was that it was more like she put everyone in a position in a hierarchy, and the ones below her (hello!) were always wrong and the ones above her were always right, so doctors etc, unless they pissed her off, and then she'd find a reason to shove them down the totem pole. So the idea of someone else being able to see that she has NPD, she would totally hate that. But what I would love to let NPD people know is that no matter how unqualified we are to give you a meditation diagnosis, we can still see what you're doing. My mother hated the idea that people thought or spoke about her, I remember her falling out with a family member after she told a mutual friend that we were getting our windows done. She used to say "how dare she lift my name" as if her name was sacred, as if she was like fucking Rumpelstiltskin. They really think that if they can't see us, we can't see them. The irony is that NPD people's families know everything about them because you have to learn them to survive. They have no clue who we are because we're not the slightest bit interesting until suddenly we're walking out the door.

Really glad for you that you got away Don't say.

YorkieDorkie · 18/05/2018 09:48

A characteristic of NPD is not being able to acknowledge that you have a disorder.

Well played OP Hmm

LagunaBubbles · 18/05/2018 09:56

its narcissistic to diagnose such a disorder without the required qualifications

Rubbish. This isnt about a clinical diagnosis, people who have or had relationships with narcissists arent psychiatrists but will have first hand experience of their behaviour to suspect. We can all have narcissistic traits. Having narcissistic traits, even a lot of them doesnt equal Narcissistic Personality Disorder. To be diagnosed with NPD you need a certain number of traits and they need to have been present for a long time. I work in the NHS Psychotherapy department and we often see people with traits amongst their other difficulties, we rarely see or diagnose people with NPD because simply these people dont tend to present.

User467 · 18/05/2018 10:14

There's a very big difference between being narcissistic and having NPD. From my experience of dealing with NPD if your OH had it he would not be packing his and leaving just on your say so.

When we researched NPD it was it was like a jolt, it so perfectly described the person we had been dealing with for so many years and made everything make sense. People with NPD are extremely clever manipulators and use/abuse their victims in many different ways to heighten their own feelings of grandeur, these can often be very subtle and not apparent to people outwith the situation. It's almost impossible sometimes to explain why they are so toxic. If on the rare occasion one might outwardly accept a potential diagnosis they will never truly believe it and the "acceptance" will just be part of their bigger game.

NPD by its very nature can't be treated. OP it's impossible for someone on here to give you a list of all the traits as some sort of checklist for diagnosis. If you don't want to describe your OHs behaviour then I don't see how any can really help. There is a huge amount of information online about NPD that is worth a read if you really think that is what you are dealing with but please don't confuse narcissistic traits in someone with NPD

toomuchtooold · 18/05/2018 11:37

LagunaBubbles I find your post incredibly validating - thank you. My mother doesn't do psychiatrists or counselling or anything like that because unlike various members of her family who have sought help for the issues stemming from their extremely poor and chaotic upbringing, my mother has sufficient strength of mind never to need any help. I'm not a psychiatrist, I will never share my opinion of my mother's mental health with anyone IRL, but inside my own head I'm as sure she has NPD/paranoid personality disorder as I am of anything I've ever known, and I find it really hard to cope with the idea that I would have to have a professional qualification in order to be allowed to form an opinion of her behaviour. It was a long journey to understanding her behaviour, grasping that I didn't have to subject myself to it and that I had a responsibility not to expose my children to it. Some people would probably say that I should have been able to get there just by identifying her behaviour as abusive, but the problem is, you don't know it's abusive if you grew up with it. And emotional abuse is harder to define than physical or sexual, a lot easier to put down to you being oversensitive or misinterpreting or whatever. I just saw my mother as this difficult thing that I had to manage in my life. I'd see her, and I'd go right back into my role of placating her and taking up as little space or attention as possible. I only really noticed it when I had my kids, when I was forced to choose between my modes of looking after their feelings or looking after her feelings, on a minute to minute basis. And I chose them - there were times when, looking back on it, she pushed the boundaries and tried to get me to choose to prioritise her - and I didn't, and he behaviour went right downhill and I was debating with myself whether to go NC - I was just disgusted and exhausted by the whole thing, why she would steal things and break things from my house, why she would create drama about nothing, go about spoiling for a fight, how my stomach would knot up every time she came in the room, how I was always waiting for the next burst of unpleasantness. But I still don't know if I would have gone NC, only I watched Disney's Rapunzel with my kids and there she was, my mother, but she was the bad guy. And then I googled "why is my mother like Disney's Rapunzel" and I found out what NPD was and it was like a solution crystallising, like suddenly all these things that had made no sense, things I'd ignored, suddenly made perfect sense. And a couple of people I'd had problems with in my working life, and I remember thinking "that person reminds me of my mother and I don't know why", and I realised that they probably had traits if not the disorder. I just wish I'd known what it was when I was younger. I'd have dealt differently with my mother, and with those work situations, and it would have made quite a difference to my life. I'm passionate that people who might be living with a parent or partner who has NPD should know what NPD is, so that unlike me they don't spend half a lifetime fighting blind. If you lived with a psychopath, you'd want to know, wouldn't you, what a psychopath looks like? You wouldn't feel obliged to give them the benefit of the doubt or to leave their diagnosis between them and their doctor, you'd be very happy to have as much information about it as possible and to have some insight into how this person with disordered thinking (very hard for a normal person to understand) would be likely to react to you for example trying to leave, or setting a boundary with them. I don't see why it should be any different with NPD.

Sorry, have totally derailed the thread now. As you were!

Gin96 · 18/05/2018 12:12

The problem with getting someone with NPD diagnosed is very difficult as they think they're perfect and there is nothing wrong with them but if you have to deal them it's handy to know, there is some great advise on line, it makes you understand why they behave the way they do.

LittleLionMansMummy · 18/05/2018 12:25

Op, I think if you've come to AIBU for relationship advice then you've probably come to the wrong place.

But on a personal level, my stbx bil shows all the traits. I don't know if he's formally a narc, but he is most definitely a fucking arsehole. Hence, dsis has finally seen the light after 20 years.

But if you want genuine advice, perhaps post in Relationships.

Dontsayyouloveme · 18/05/2018 18:40

This describes my experience if a narcissist and their behaviours perfectly www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissism-understood.htm

persypear · 19/05/2018 00:39

OP I understand the process of trying to figure someone out and wondering why they do the things they do.

Sometimes we can make sense of (diagnose) the behaviour, and sometimes not. Sometimes all that you can know for sure is that the behaviour makes you unhappy.

But that is enough. If he does or says things that you don't like and especially if they feel cruel or abusive and make you feel bad about yourself then you can (and should) leave him, whether you figure him out or not.

I am sure that the vast majority of, if not all, nasty/ narcisstic people have some kind of traumatic or abusive past, and maybe a mood or personality disorder or other malignant psychology as a result, but that does not mean that you have to allow their behaviour to hurt you by staying with them. If you want to, you can just end it and go. There will be lots of people who can help you make sense of what you have been through - toxic people are sadly pretty common.

Making a commtiment to someone with a MH disorder or personality disorder isn't always wrong of course, but is is very challenging and risky. And if the difficult behaviour is serious then there have to be some really compelling and justifiable reasons to put yourself through that. Love is rarely enough, or a sensible reason. And you might never know if it has been worth it until the end - some people do not ever recover or find a way to make their symptoms managable or reasonable to live with. Everyone is different and so every person with a mental health condition is different. Some people want to change, some do not. Some want to change but cannot. Some do recover or learn to manage. Should you put up with being abused because of it? Absolutely not. Many abusive people become dangerous when you stand up for yourself. Beware of that.

With a true/ strong narcissist you will always be wondering is the love real? Is the kindness/ charm real when they can turn it off like a switch? When will the behaviour turn from apparently loving to cruel or rageful or vindictive or cold - because it always does. When will they turn on you when you can take it least - because they will.

It is no way to live.

And in fact staying only feeds the narcissim. So if you want to look at it that way, in many ways leaving a narcissist will save you and help the narcissist.

But ultimately. YOU are worth saving first. Get yourself safe and stay safe.

TuTru · 19/05/2018 00:47

There’s different types of narcissists. Sadly they all suck!

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