To question feminism, my views and common sense?

[Shedmicehugh1]

Following a thread the other day about a boy HAVING to change in the female changing rooms ie obvious disability and within female rooms ‘rules’. I was shocked at how many argued ‘trumps’ for woman’s rights over disabled rights.

I am starting to question whether feminists allow little room for common sense, flexibility or humanity?

I’m a woman, I also have a disabled son. Can you be a disabled (male) campaigner, humanists and feminist? Or AIBU and just not understanding what feminist are?

No, she should use the accessible toilet, seeing as that is what it is hmm

Disabled toilets usually have a radar key, so they can only be used by disabled people. My point was about using empathy.

I don’t think your issue is with feminism, basically, OP. It’s a red herring. Your issue is with how carers and disabled people are treated.

"feminism (in general) allows very little or no empathy for males."

We've got loads of empathy for the wants/needs of males, as long as they don't threaten the hard-earned protections for women.

People do empathise. The fact still remains that it's predominantly women who are expected to give up their rights in cases like this.
I don't want to be in a changing room when there's an unknown Male in it. I don't want my daughter to be in changing rooms with Male people. I simply don't.
There are spaces available for those with disabilities, in some places I agree they aren't entirely adequate but that's not feminists fault.
We all need to take responsibility to make sure that there are adequate facilities.
It's not solely down to women.

CoteDAzur that was a point I raised with woman and little girl using the disabled loos scenario. Disabled people fight just as hard for rights. I would rather have those rights impinged briefly, than a little girl wet herself. Empathy.

I would hand over a radar key.

I’m very confused by your position, OP, you seem to contradict yourself.

One can have empathy for another’s challenges, yet not concede your own hard-won rights or space to someone else at your own cost. For example I have huge empathy for the plight of people facing homelessness, I donate and campaign and volunteer - but I am not inviting people to come and stay in my house.

Not supporting disabled males in female changing spaces doesn’t mean a lack of empathy for disabled males.

I’m confused myself!

It seems feminism means never making an exception, sticking to rights, regardless of circumstances?

The thread mentioned was just an example, as it gave me the impression that feminism (in general) allows very little or no empathy for males.

Feminism is not opposed to men. The patriarchy is shafting all of us! For example, the social difficulties men have in undertaking a primary carer role and the ingrained beliefs that men should not talk about emotions - both negatives for men of living in a patriarchal society. However feminism recognises that society can be made better for everyone by promoting the rights of the main oppressed group (women).

*PuntasticUsername

"when there are no other options available, should empathy be used?"

This is just another way of saying that women should give up their rights for others, or be reprimanded if they don't.*

^This is very well put!

Well, no, I am a feminist, but not every decision I make is a feminist decision. My feminism is a big part of how I approach life in general but it’s not the only consideration all the time.

Oop pressed send by accident then. Not sure what else I meant to say though 😄

There’s a podcast called “The Guilty Feminist” which might be a good listen, it’s very funny and informative to boot :-) they start each episode with “I’m a feminist, but...” anecdotes.

I loved the guilty feminist podcast until they had a trans woman on who was extremely misogynistic I felt. Talking about women and their smelly vaginas while the other panellist laughed in the background.
Apart from that it is occasionally a good listen.

*when there are no other options available, should empathy be used?"

This is just another way of saying that women should give up their rights for others, or be reprimanded if they don't.*

^This is very well put!*

That wasn’t what I was saying.

The same could be said of disabled rights! As other posters replied they would fully expect a woman and a little girl to use the disabled toilets, as a right, rather than empathy!

I think I am finding feminism quite rigid in the respect of accommodating males with disabilities.

It’s conflicting for me, as a woman and mother of a disabled son. I could impinge my son rights, briefly on occasion to accommodate certain circumstances. It seems feminism does not allow the same for a male with disabilities.

Cwenthryth Thanks I will check it out

I like the Guilty Feminist but they try too hard to be intersectional and get tied up in knots. I was pretty disgusted by the Roobs person (whose name i'm deliberately mispelling) having a hissy fit during the discussion of FGM.

Rubes ..that's the very one.

I am finding feminism quite rigid in the respect of accommodating males with disabilities.

My views is that quite simply, feminism isn’t for males, disabled or not, so has no requirement to accommodate or not for them. It’s just not a feminist issue. I’m not saying that provision of services for disabled males isn’t an issue, just that it isn’t specifically a feminist one, so it’s inappropriate to expect feminism to have the answer for you.

Agree Guilty Fems to seem to allow misogyny when discussing transgenderism, which has on occasion lead me to grind my teeth somewhat. I still find the rest of their shows very entertaining :-)

My feminism has also been fighting for fairness betwen the sexes - both doing as much caring, both doing asm uch of the washing, both being allowed good careers, men having equal rights to children on divorce and being forced do to as much caring as women do after divorce - just balance and fairness.

Disablity issues are separate and of course we all reach decisions in relation to changing rooms (not that I ever use changing rooms!) and the like on a case by case basis.

If women keep being accommodating and puting up, then nothing will improve or change - for the women who dont want a boy/ man in their female changing rooms, or for the disabled people who go without the facitlties they need.

We need more disabled/ mixed facitlties to accomodate the needs of families and those who care for people of the opposite sex. Disabled people and carers have (quite rightly!) a higher expectation of participation these days rather than satying at home, but facitlties have not caught up.

Sure it is 'kind' to allow the mother and disbaled son into the ladies, and in a pinch most women would 'be kind' and put aside their own feelings to help someone in a challenging, but that is the point isn't it. Women (not men) too often being forced to put aside their own needs to accomodate others when another, better option could, and should, be found.

Surely all feminisim is saying is that burden of kindness and decency should not by default, fall on women.

*challenging situation. Apologies

Cwenth the 2 are entwined to an extent. Prominently it is a disabled rights issue for better facilities, no doubt about that. However, as a woman (with a disabled male) I’m thrown under the bus, when/if these facilities are not available and told to use the men’s!

Yet a woman and girl using the disabled toilets example, is not a disabled right issue. I wouldn’t dream of saying use the men’s and would hand over my symbolic radar key!

Anyhow, real life is getting in the way of my mumsnetting! I’m off.

Feminism isn't for males, but a woman can have a disabled son or partner.
A female carer can take a male disabled person into a male changing room. I think most people would realise that an older male child or teenager is going to make women feel uncomfortable in a female changing room.

I have no idea what you’re on about

What has women’s oppression got to do with a disabled child needing the toilet?

You mention another thread - I assume that thread some posters objected to a disabled boy being allowed to use the women’s toilets with his mother? And from that you believe that Feminism as a movement is rigidly unfair towards males?

I never know why some make such a fuss about little boys using the female changing rooms or toilets tbh. I mean come on like some young boy or disabled child is going to be any kind of threat to a grown woman when in the changing room or toilet with Mum/ female family member.

I'm confused.

Why does an adult male with disabilities need the female changing room?

You do know.... that many women will identify as feminist but all have differing views about things? Theres no rule book of opinion. I am a feminist but I disagreed on that thread about the disabled boy and his mother... I thought the duty lay with the establishment to provide larger lockable changing rooms so that anyone who needed a carer with them could be in an actual private space.... as the issue seemed to be that even in the ladies changing rooms she could not fit in a private cubicle with her son.
If theres an issue with privacy its the actual place that should be questioned and pressure put on to be changed to be fit for purpose..... Not a woman and her disabled son!!!