To think opportunities should be for all pupils?

[deboraci]

Ds is year 12 at a comprehensive in London. It’s in a slightly “deprived” area, and about 25% of pupils get the pupil premium. Ds doesn’t, but we’re not miles above the cut-off.

My gripe is that the school works with several charities that provide tutoring and mentoring but it’s only the pupil premium kids who are eligible for this. For example, one of these charities pairs up pupils with students at top London universities (UCL, LSE, Imperial) who did similar A levels to them, and they have a weekly tutoring session at the school. And the student also takes the pupil on a personal tour of their university.

I just think it’s unfair that my son’s friend gets to be tutored by an Imperial girl who got straight A*s in her A levels in the same subjects as his friend last year, while my son doesn’t, even though we could never afford to get him a tutor like that. My ds could really benefit from these experiences as he’s struggling quite a bit with his A levels and no one in our family went to university so a personal tour would be a great experience.

It’s not just this one - the school has done a few residential trips to universities this term, like Bristol and Nottingham, but only pupil premium kids could go.

AIBU?

Some of the students who have been given tutors are doing far better academically than my son. It just seems like they don’t need it as much.

Agree, it is unfair.

Pupil premium is a very blunt tool because it doesn't take into account things like housing costs.

Someone whose parents owned a multi-million pound company but reinvested profits and had canny tax accountants could qualify.

Ah the old problem of being the ones just above the cut off line. It applies everywhere, in housing, benefits, practical opportunities - those in most need or most troubled get loads and loads of help whereas those who have tried their best, sometimes against the same difficulties or only slightly less, get nothing. I am sympathetic, but I don't know what the solution is.

Pupil premium is a payment made to the school. Each of those kids brings in an extra £X that the school is required to spend on raising the attainment of those kids.

It sucks a bit that you're just outside of the cut off, but that is kind of inevitable when there's money involved - there has to be a set of standard criteria and some people will always fall just on the wrong side of the line.

Some of the students who have been given tutors are doing far better academically than my son. It just seems like they don’t need it as much.

How well they are doing in relation to other students isn't the issue the school is addressing. It's how well they are doing in relation to their potential.

I first thought this was going to be one of those laughable YABU threads,
but actually I'd be a bit annoyed by what you describe as well. Happy for those getting but i'd like my dc to benefit from this too seeing you can't provide this type of mentoring personally.

Sometimes you just have to really grab the bull by the horns and voice your concerns. Go to your head of academics and tell him/her what you've just written here, that ds is the first to try for uni, you don't have access to any mentoring, impress on them how you cannot based on your income afford tutoring, expantiate on what DS would like to do at A'level, the type of uni's he is gunning for etc and wondered wether the program could include him. See what they say.

Most 'tools' are blunt though. There are always cut off lines, and people just on either side of that line aren't necessarily that much different to each other.

If you get tax credits, some tutoring groups can be registered with the tax credit child care element, apparently, so you could get a portion of any tutoring costs back, which might make it more affordable.

That's tough OP, I'm sorry. I understand that there has to be a cut off somewhere but this situation doesn't seem fair.

I suppose there's some comfort in the fact that if pupils are being tutored by outside tutors it frees the teacher up a bit to concentrate on all his or her pupils in class time, but that's still not totally fair.

Could you perhaps club together with a handful of other parents and pay for a tutor to have, say, 4 of them at a time? It would be cheaper and would still benefit your son.

I think it is difficult to be 'fair' to all.

PP kids on average do less well academically than those from other families. Which is why PP was introduced in the first place.

It will mean that some PP kids get interventions/opportunities that they strictly speaking might not 'need' compared with others, but on average it is needed for 'closing the gap'.

And is a PP kid who is on track for a B, but with more opportunities could get an A, less 'worthy' of the help than a PP kid on track for an E but with help could get a D?

Have you heard of / looked into the Sutton Trust?

I guess it is the same as lots of things, those people 'just above' the cut-off miss out.

I agree.

I always think that there is a big swathe of forgotten kids. My dcs go to a school where there is 1% I think on FSM. BUT - and it's a big but - that does not mean that all the rest of the kids are from well-off families. Far from it. This is an area of lower middle class ordinariness. Not much poverty, but not much inspiration offered either.

Also I get a bit riled at all the help given to kids in metropolitan areas, where there is plenty of opportunity - museums, transport, educational facilities. Helpful initiatives are rarely directed at schmucks living in untrendy outposts of the UK (eg seaside resorts). Who wants to schlep to Gt Yarmouth to tell the kids there to fulfil their potential?

I hear you. Im a single parent and I receive child/working tax credit, and because of this I’m not entitled to any subsidies for things like music lessons, trips and the like, even though I’m only £11 per week better off working than being on Jsa. So my kids have to miss out a lot of the time whereas the children of wealthy parents and those whose parents only get state benefits get to do it all. It sucks

How well they are doing in relation to other students isn't the issue the school is addressing. It's how well they are doing in relation to their potential.

Absolutely this. Even if you can't recreate the university student help they're getting, you are judged to, in all likelihood, be in a better position than many of the pupil premium parents to get your child close to achieving his potential.

The fact that you're even thinking about this and concerned about his achievement is a long way from what was going on in the majority of deprived families at my comprehensive...

I think the cut off should be raised so you don't get situations such as thetart. But on the whole yab a bit unreasonable.

In the majority of cases it isn't just low income alone that stops dc reaching potential, it's more the surrounding circumstances. So eg educated, involved parents who just happen to end up on a low income don't have dc with the same issues as a dc with uneducated parents from a chaotic home and generations of deprivation.

And yabu to think the dc being higher ability is unfair. It's about potential not ability. Nice to see a school who actually follow the guidelines, too often the higher ability pp dc don't get the provision they are entitled to.

My dd was on the follow on pp throughout primary. She was and is gifted and was beyond the primary curriculum and available staff in one subject, so in the last few years pp funded an appropriate 1-1 for a session a week plus time to set her work. I had no objections to the fact that for the earlier years she didn't get any benefit from pp as she didn't need it. But I'd have strongly objected if she'd been left to stagnate for half of ks2 so that the funding could be used for none pp kids whose parents thought they should be entitled.

My child is adopted so do Fudge off my daughter had to endure neglect abuse then foster care in order to receive one of the few fudgeing head starts

Th money is to try and repair some of the damage done

I sympathise, OP. Would you feel able to raise this with the head of sixth form? We sometimes have wiggle room to get kids who would benefit onto these programmes, even if they don't strictly meet the criteria. We know that eligibility for PP is blunt and that we have a lot of pupils who need the support but don't receive the funding.

I agree. It's unfair.

Some of the students who have been given tutors are doing far better academically than my son. It just seems like they don’t need it as much.

Careful with this, though. YANBU to want your child not to miss out but you are in no position to make this judgement about any other child.

I would give anything be be in the position not to need PP+ not have a daughter that had been abused with in a inch of her life people never know when their lucky always wanting what others

Have believe me you wouldn’t want what my family endure

Heart sinking and crappy situation. System sucks. I think @Californiadream makes the best suggestion of clubbing around 4 kids together for a shared tutor, but you'd need commitment from people.

Some of the students who have been given tutors are doing far better academically than my son. It just seems like they don’t need it as much

You have no clue many of the
Hills some children have to climb just to be equal as said before adopted and looked after children receive PP as well you would have know way of knowing if a child is getting it due to money or being looked after

Your feelings are understandable but it is often not possible for charities to work outside their funding remit.

I am involved with a charity that provides support for people within a certain age range living within particular postcodes. We relieve funding from various sources including local council/NHS/government/ lottery and private donations specifically and exclusively to work with this group. Contractually and ethically we cannot spend the grants and donations to work with people who do not meet these criteria. To do so would risk losing future funding. Think of the charity Kidscape who used money for unauthorised purposes. They lost everything and left their original client group unsupported.

As a first point of contact for the organisation I am sometimes approached by genuinely needy, desperate people who would benefit from our services but who don't meet the age/area rules of our group. It is hard to turn them away but to protect the original client base and ensure the charity continues to get funding, it has to be done.

Have a look at the Sutton Trust. They offer programmes for students who are the first in their family to go to university.

www.suttontrust.com

PP kids on average do less well academically than those from other families.

On average they do catasrophically less well academically. It’s not a position to be envied.

There are some scholarships and support available for ‘first in family’ to go to uni www.thescholarshiphub.org.uk/blog/first-your-family-go-university

YANBU. That sounds hugely unfair.

Agree on Sutton trust. I went to a summer school at Oxford and it helped me hugely (also gives a huge advantage at Oxbridge interviews). I also went to a subject specific summer school at repton school. Have a look at what your local university offers as well as fortune 500 companies if he knows what field he wants. They're usually known as "early identification programmes".

Does he know if he wants to go to university and what subject? I used to work in graduate recruitment so happy to advise on what would look good on his personal statement.

I think I'll speak to the head of sixth form
About it at parents evening