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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

King Charles and Queen Camilla

381 replies

LoveInTokyo · 16/05/2018 07:36

AIBU to wonder why so many people seem to think this will not happen?

I can understand why a lot of people abroad seem to think it’s likely that Prince Charles will just hand over the crown straight to William because he’s younger and more popular. Most countries don’t have royal families, and in some European monarchies routine abdication is something that actually happens.

But I was reading some of the completely mental royal wedding threads on here and was surprised by the number of similar comments. I particularly enjoyed one Daily Express reader’s person’s comment about how the public would never accept Camilla as queen.

I don’t think most people give a shiny shit whether Camilla is Queen or not, but those that do have an issue with it will have to get used to the idea. Prince Charles didn’t have to give up his place in the line of succession when he married her, therefore unless the Queen outlives Charles, he will be king and Camilla will be queen!

OP posts:
WhatsGoingOnEh · 16/05/2018 20:59

According to my mum, a psychic predicted - back in the 70s - that Charles will never be king. They didn't give a reason.

kooshbin · 16/05/2018 21:05

The Queen Mother was crowned Queen in the same coronation ceremony as the King.

The wife of a King is always Queen whether crowned or not.
(Who was the queen who got shut out of her husband's coronation? Caroline, I think.)

The husband of a Queen is never King.
(Though that got muddied a bit by Queen Mary's husband, Philip of Spain, calling himself King.)

William&Mary don't count as that was all rather political.

Camilla doesn't use her Princess of Wales title because of association with Diana. There's nothing to stop her being Queen, since that was never a title held by Diana.

BalloonSlayer · 16/05/2018 21:10

I always thought that Charles's statement: "your greatest achievement is to love me" was a self-deprecating one - that he sees himself as unloveable and to love him would therefore be an effort.

PoorYorick · 16/05/2018 21:14

According to my mum, a psychic predicted - back in the 70s - that Charles will never be king. They didn't give a reason.

Did the psychic have a doorbell?

SerenDippitty · 16/05/2018 21:21

William & Mary were both monarchs. I see no reason why the wife of a King must always be a Queen, I think only those who are Monarch in their own right rather than married to one should have the title King or Queen.

The80sweregreat · 16/05/2018 21:25

I did hear that someone predicted that Charles would have a lot of heartache - this was in the 70s too. Who knows? I think the Queen will live past 100. My prediction based on nothing.

Queenoftheblitz · 16/05/2018 21:26

I always thought that Charles's statement: "your greatest achievement is to love me" was a self-deprecating one - that he sees himself as unloveable and to love him would therefore be an effort.

I thought so originally but reading more about him I'm not so sure.

The80sweregreat · 16/05/2018 21:27

C and C seem happy though.
Despite it all.

starryeyed19 · 16/05/2018 21:30

I think I heard that Charles would be his regnant name and also that Camilla might not be Queen Camilla, but I suspect by the time he is crowned, that might change

starryeyed19 · 16/05/2018 21:34

I never ever understand why people think that the Queen or Charles might abdicate. The abdication of Edward VIII, the Queen's uncle, was a time of huge crisis for the monarchy and was indirectly responsible for her father's (as some see it) early death. Everything in their lives is about duty and service. There is absolutely no way anyone is going to abdicate.

Queenoftheblitz · 16/05/2018 21:34

For Camilla not to be titled queen a new statute would have to be drawn up. That is not going to happen - she will be queen.
Years ago some government bod said she wouldn't be queen. It was bs. Just the royals hoping the public would forget about it.

PoorYorick · 16/05/2018 21:38

The husband of a Queen is never King.

If I understand it correctly, that's because he would then outrank the actual born, crowned and anointed monarch. Has that changed, given that the firstborn is now the immediate successor, regardless of gender?

BlueBug45 · 16/05/2018 21:52

@PoorYorick nope.

BlueBug45 · 16/05/2018 21:56

@Lizzie48 Did they marry before the C of E change their rules on divorced people remarrying in church?

Also another issue with royal weddings especially for those who are up to 6th in succession to the throne is they don't get a choice on how it is done. "The Palace" - the Queen with possibly some government intervention - decides how it is to be conducted to not upset the likes of us.

SerenDippitty · 16/05/2018 22:00

I never ever understand why people think that the Queen or Charles might abdicate. The abdication of Edward VIII, the Queen's uncle, was a time of huge crisis for the monarchy and was indirectly responsible for her father's (as some see it) early death. Everything in their lives is about duty and service. There is absolutely no way anyone is going to abdicate.

I can’t see why it would cause a huge constitutional crisis if the Queen decided she wanted to retire to have some time with Philip. She’s 92 fgs. Life would go on.

biscuitraider · 16/05/2018 22:01

Maybe to you, but likely not to the Queen, which is one reason she probably will not abdicate. I do think it's possible that there will be an official Regency at some point.

It was just that bit about the queen being a devout Christian. Doesn't quite fit the bill. Grin

Luisa27 · 16/05/2018 22:13

Thanks for your reply “Queenoftheblitz

I’ve not read any of his biographies - will have to hunt them out - hasn’t Penny Junor written a couple?

WinnieTheW0rm · 16/05/2018 22:32

"For Camilla not to be titled queen a new statute would have to be drawn up"

Really? I thought title of consort was entirely gift of the monarch.

Which stature currently governs it?

Lizzie48 · 16/05/2018 22:39

@BlueBug45 I actually don't know that they would officially be allowed to marry now, because of Camilla's previous marriage to APB. She was the one who cheated on him, as I understand it, though I don't know whether he had affairs as well.

Queenoftheblitz · 16/05/2018 22:43

Yes Luisa, Junor is a great friend of them both. You won't get a fully rounded character portrayal from her. There was a book out a couple of months ago, can't remember the author which was not complimentary at all.

Queenoftheblitz · 16/05/2018 22:47

Lizzie parker bowles cheated on camilla continually. I really believe he's the love of her life. He was a hottie and jilly cooper's Rupert campbell black is based on him.

millimat · 16/05/2018 22:47

I've learned so much about the royal family reading this thread! I had no idea that potentially Charles could change his name! I like camilla. I like having a monarchy.
It will be such a shock when it is no longer Queen Elizabeth - for us it's the only monarch we have known. I remember the shock when Margaret Thatcher was no longer PM and that's nothing like the same timescale.

Butterymuffin · 16/05/2018 22:49

Doesn't Andrew PB have a thing going with Princess Anne now? She always seemed sensible. Don't know how she can bear to touch him.

SenecaFalls · 16/05/2018 22:50

There is some precedent for the husband of a queen regnant to be given the title of king. Philip of Spain, the husband of Mary I of England was named co-ruler when they married and called King of England. He spent most of his time in Spain, though, and never really functioned as a ruler in England. And his title did not survive Mary, who was succeeded by her sister Elizabeth.

Henry, Lord Darnley, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots, was made King Consort of Scotland.

Philip of Spain and William of Orange were co-rulers, but William's title survived his wife's death, unlike Philip's case. Mary II had a superior claim to the throne as the daughter of James II and VII (William was the son of James’s sister), and William's secondary position in the succession was recognized in the settlement which provided that if Mary died first and William remarried, any potential children with a second wife would be after Queen Mary’s sister, Anne, in the succession, thus making her, after Mary's death, the only female Heir Apparent in British history.

The notion that King is a higher title than Queen is a historical holdover. In many European countries where the Salic law prevailed, only men could inherit the throne and so queens in their own right were very rare. And even in countries that allowed women to reign, men took precedence in the succession until very recently (and still do in some).

It's certainly possible with more egalitarian rules about succession, the notion that King is a higher title can change and male consorts can be called King. With more queens regnant on the horizon all over Europe (Sweden, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Spain) and a move to have more equality between the sexes in these matters, we might see the King Consort title revived for the husbands of Queens.

Onehellofaride · 16/05/2018 22:54

I haven’t RTFT but I think a lot of people hope that Charles doesn’t take the throne as the younger royals are a breath of fresh air in the monarchy. Charles unfortunately isn’t particularly well liked and thus could well cause the monarchy to struggle. The young royals are liked much more and therefore get much more support.

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