Do alot of private school students also use external tutors ?

[midgemaisel1]

This is a Private School vs State School plus tutors thread. Posting in AIBU for traffic.

I am in the process of looking at state and private secondaries. My DC are currently in primary state. They are both currently in the middle sets and doing ok.
DC1 is studious (but has mild ASD) and loves science but I am concerned that in a state secondary she will not have the opportunity to do triple science as they tend to only allow those that are in top set. The private school we are looking at allows majority of it's students to take triple science.
DC2 loves Maths but needs structure and to be pushed.

I went to state and private, and thrived in private as the class size is smaller. I'm easily distracted (so are my children), so in state I would tend to do the minimum whereas I was pushed in private school. I am aware that the quality of teaching in both varies from teacher to teacher.

I cannot afford to send them to private school AND pay tutors, so my question is: if your child is at private school, do you feel the need to pay for tutors as well, especially as they are approaching G.C.S.E.'s and A-Level's ?

I suppose many people would think that the smaller class sizes in private education would result in more individual attention and presumably, less need for additional support.

I do think that there are times when people feel that the more money they spend, the better will be the outcome for their child. There are children and young people though, who may never reach the required standard in a particular subject, no matter what you do. I think there’s a difference between recognising when your child needs a bit more individual support and actually is never going to get it.

Instinctively, with no evidence, I would assume that smaller classes and more individual attention should reduce the need for additional help. I also think there are times when you have to accept that your child might not find certain things easy to learn.

My DC's are still too young so I don't personally know any children at private schools preparing for GCSEs but in my local area (North London) there is a lot of talk among parents about getting into the selective private schools. There are always privately run workshops running for parents to help them prepare their kids for the 2+, 4+, 5+, 7+ assessments as well as the 11+. It's so bizarre but there are parents who enlist the help of education consultants, private tutors at every step of the way. I would expect that this only gets more ramped up for GCSEs and A Levels.

For the non selective private schools it appears to be mixed, some do use tutors while others are more relaxed.

@OP

It certainly can happen, it happened to the DS of a friend of ours who was politely asked to leave KGS after his GCSEs. However, I think it was more to do with his general (negative!) attitude towards learning and the school environment, as much as his grades. I doubt they would ask children to go unless they were struggling right across the board, which might happen if they had perhaps been over tutored for any entrance exam.

Obviously you know what is best for your DCs, and a lot will depend on the actual schools involved, but do bear in mind how much a good school can do to make sure that pupils get the grades they need. DS was at a selective private, and a complete, total and utter dunce at maths (although top set for chemistry ). He got an A* in his GCSE, to everyone’s utter amazement, including his.

OP, I mostly tutor from Year 7 onwards and some 11+. I'm phasing 11+ out though as the age I'm being asked to tutor is getting younger and younger (nursery) which isn't my cup of tea.

I would do.the opposite to your last post having had children in both sectors ans assume the indie would help your child ig extra required.

(One in state now working after a levels and degree, one in indie with learning support involvement, now at rg uni, and one in indie no extra help requires doing gcses. No tutors.)

Another tutor here - 95% of my pupils are at private schools (sometimes very academic ones!)

I have an autistic child in a high performing comprehensive school who is approaching GCSEs.
He was told he could do triple science if he wished despite what I think are only fairly average results. I think they were right that he could pass all three but he's certainly not in the 8/9 category, which I assume the top set is.
I expect the make up of the top set or sets depends on the size of the school, assuming the same proportion of enthusiastic scientists. Where there are eight classes in a year, the top two sets are potentially very high standard. Where there are just three you might find them more mixed.
I use tutors. Not for everything and not all the time, but to consolidate and to offer 1-1 support where my son needs it. Personally I think the idea of taking 'a different approach' is the whole point, as a tutor can teach the individual according to how they understand.

I know dozens of children in each sector that have tuition on top of school. Sometimes it's to address a specific need, sometimes it's to keep a good class position . Lots of them it was tutoring for 11+.

I know one child whose mother obtained all the exercise books of their neighbours' child (who is one year older), and drilled their child so she knew everything before studying it!

The it will depend on the ethos of the school. At DD's school each subject has after school or lunch time clubs where pupils can go for additional help. Pupils can also ask class teachers for individual help, for example me DD has had three sessions over the last two weeks with the drama teacher and last year she had a half hour session once a week with a different maths teacher. In this situation tutoring is totally unnecessary, but this is due to the schools ethos.

All the children who go to private school I know, also use private tutors.
It makes a mockery of the schools results- who knows whether they're due to the schools teaching or the tutors.

Just for balance, two DD's at two different private schools, one very top flight, one more average. Neither had tutors, and I don't know of anyone else who had tutors either! It obviously varies by school, but at youngest DD school, they provide subject "surgeries" every lunchtime and during independent study periods, where you are encouraged to go along if you need extra help with anything. This is great, and surely what we are paying for after all!! I suspect some parents (pushy) in some types of private school may see tutoring as an additional requirement for DC's guaranteed achievement and bragging rights or am I be being unfair ?

OP I would be very wary of any private school with high rates of tuition. No way would I pay twice!

My nieces private school insisted on tutors as they weren’t making the grade the school wanted.

I’d have been of the opinion that i was paying the school shitloads of money for them to get the required grade. State school + tutor would probably have got the same result...

If a significant amount of pupils require outside tutors, then the school is not doing the job you are paying them to do.

I'm not sure that they 'require' them, more that some parent types will do whatever it takes for their children to get ahead of peers. It starts at private school, then kumon etc, then tutors .

Loads at my DSs school have tutors, particularly at the transition from junior to senior and at the exam stages.

We don't have to pay at school for SEN provision but lots of independent schools charge extra for this. BF is having to pay a good chunk on top of the normal fees for her DC.

If, as a parent, I thought my privately-educated child needed more help, I would expect the school I was already paying to provide it.

^^ This is my view.

I used to tutor and tutored several children from private schools.

I went to private school and only required a tutor for maths. I just COULD NOT get my head around simultaneous equations. Got there in the end :)

I don't think many others required tutors, but we had quite difficult entrance exams so you had to be reasonably intelligent to even get a place.

My y9 at private school hasn't had a tutor and we don't plan to get one. His only friend who has had one was at primary school level and they were for maths as he was struggling with it.

I know many children at indie schools in North London/Herts. Seems fairly common for them to have private tutors, both at Prep and Secondary school.

Parents say that they can't risk the children falling behind the class average.

Friends and I have discussed this at length, as my DC's are at state schools. Our analysis is that the expectations are higher in the top indies, but the teaching is not necessarily better, so the parents have to throw in more at home.

There were a few teachers who focussed on the very brightest girls only (most of whom could have probably got A*s just working through the curriculum on their own). DD was struggling in maths by GCSE stage and biology (though that was due to a teacher who didn’t bother covering the curriculum at all most of the time ). Although it was a selective schlol and DD was by no means unable to get good grades, she did need more support than she was getting in those subjects and we ended up paying for tuition which I really begrudged. There were a few few girls in a similar situation who had tutors too. There were no extra clubs or groups to help those who might be struggling get to grips with the things they found tricky. And I was shocked by how poor the biology teacher was.

My nieces private school insisted on tutors as they weren’t making the grade the school wanted.

I’d have been of the opinion that i was paying the school shitloads of money for them to get the required grade. State school + tutor would probably have got the same result...

Damn right! I would not be paying fees to a school who said that, that’s outrageous!

My DS went to Eton and, as I said above, really struggled with maths. In his first year I asked his maths teacher if we should be doing extra work in the holidays (not with a tutor, just at home) and he said absolutely not, the school will get them all through. And it did.

We don’t pay for tutoring and I only know of 1 child in DD’s year that is ( of course there could well be more that I don’t know of but it’s unlikely)
The child that does have tutors is SN and to be honest the SEN provision at the school isn’t great - Heads own child goes to another school for that reason
I would never pay for extra tuition and Private Ed, if I had to I would feel the School wasn’t the right fit for my child

I'm not sure why a school would let less academic students do triple science at GCSE, it is hard going and requires constant effort to get good grades.
Both of mine are in state school. I have just employ tutors when I think they might be slipping in areas that are important to them. My youngest DS sounds like yours, will only do the bare minimum, even though he is naturally very bright. I realised that he gets more motivated to learn if it is something he is interested in or something that he feels will be important in the future. So I ensure that I organise work experience in an area he is interested in and I speak to the school immediately if his grades are dropping below what he is capable of, so that they monitor him. That way, he knows I'm not going to let him glide without working. It seems to be working so far and he grades have recently shot up because of it.