To think the baby boomer generation appears on another planet

[IncaAztec]

This weeks corkers from my DM (age 65). Have left me wondering about the baby boomer generation.

-Accusing me of taking from the state as we receive free infant school meals (?)
-Informing me how busy she is (with WI and history club all in one week). I told her to ask my friend who has 3 kids & 3 jobs before she tried that one.

Anyone else with any baby boomer comments to share?

And yes, whinging about how marvellous you were for protesting about things which haven’t been relevant for 30 years does make you out of touch.

A lot of things are no longer "relevant" precisely because generations that came before yours protested against them and got them changed. Things like apartheid, free contraception, the right to housing for women fleeing domestic violence, paid maternity leave etc.

You're the one that's out of touch here, I'm afraid.

When I started work, a lot of employers wouldn't let women wear trousers at work, the equal pay act had only just come in, it was perfectly acceptable to ask women about their marriage and child-bearing plans at interviews, sexual harassment at work was pretty common, it was almost impossible for a single woman to get a mortgage and if you left your violent husband there was nowhere you could go unless you had family/friends that could take you in.

But hey, you just carry on slagging off the generation that achieved all the progress you now take for granted.

My Dad sometimes complains he’s so busy (golf/meeting friends/gardening etc), and although it can be grating to me as a single mom of 3 with f/t job, I remember that it’s all relative; to him it is busy because that’s all he’s got to worry about.

He was fortunate to retire at 55, inherited half a house from his mother and is mortgage free, but I balance this with the fact he did a job he hated for 30 years to pay for 3 kids and they struggled when starting out, so it’s not plain sailing for everyone. He deserves the life he has; there are things that were shit for his generation too.

my mum is a boomer - she has retired on the state pension, she lives in a council flat hovel She has no money, none left at the end of the month.

She has a hollow laugh at how she has had it sooooo good.

I'm a boomer with grown up dcs and have to say I'm often shocked at how other boomers so often fail to understand - or just don't want to - how much harder things are for younger people in many ways, particularly when it comes to housing costs.

I have heard so many times of older people saying how they really struggled to buy a house, lived so frugally, etc. - and can't or won't grasp that no matter how frugal you were prepared to be, in many parts of the country you just couldn't even begin to afford the same house now, on the same sort of salary.

Though I have to say that my mother - who would have been 100 this year - used to say much the same even 25 years or so ago. When she was once grumbling to me that mothers should stay at home and look after their own children rather than go out to work, I had to remind her even then, that the sort of house they'd managed to buy (albeit struggling and permanently broke) on just one ordinary salary, simply would not be possible any more, and that was when houses were far more affordable than they are now.

Having said that, I did once have to,point out to a much younger dd, who was complaining that even on a reasonable salary (and living at home relatively cheaply) she couldn't save any money, how much she was spending every month on buying lunches every day instead of making something at home, and going out several times a week - in expensive London.

She did eventually cotton on to the fact that money was not elastic and she had to choose how to spend it, or not.

My parents are boomers - they grew up with rationing, in serious poverty, in houses with no heating (and on one side outside loo and no hot water.) They had no uni education access, no cheap travel, and no furniture when they moved into their first home.

I begrudge them nothing. They aren’t loaded, they have a modest house that they own and they don’t have expensive lifestyles. They’ve worked hard for everything they have.

Their generation was lucky in some ways and not in others - each generation has its own challenges and perks.

Putting generations against each other is a clever trick. Don’t fight them, fight for a fairer system now.

Is this one of those recurring journo threads?

... I know, I'll pop onto Mumsnet and get some frothy quotes

Yes, then I shall use them to further prove that:
a) Baby Boomers are fucking loaded and too stingy to support their starving grandchildren
b) Millennials are so fucking selfish they have no idea of the real cost of anything, they just expect state handouts and can't wait for their Boomer parents to die

Just fuck off! It isn't a generational thing, it is a distribution of wealth thing!

Can everyone stop saying boomers! The word is doing my head in. My mum is in that age group. She still works 4 days a week as a nurse, looks after her elderly mother and helps out my dsis who has disabled dc. She's a lot busier than me and simply can't afford to retire.

My lovely mum does seem a tad unaware at times. She felt that DH and I should be able to live in a very nice private rental on his wage alone. At the time I wasn't working and he was a painter and decorator in a small firm (not his own firm).

FFS.

She could not understand that wages don't pay for as much as they used to.

rainy - the word boomer is used because it makes it sound as if those with that appellation are loaded and selfish and do not deserve whatever they may have worked for.
The boom in babies being born happened after the second world war - nothing the babies themselves could do to stop it
Can any of those frothing at the mouth about their own particular parents/older relations having it so good and easy really say that hand on heart they would not have done exactly what the previous generations have done. Would they decide to not buy a modest house with a mortgage of twice their income (with double digit interest rates) or take out a pension? -

• because 40 years down the line it would make things so tough (allegedly) for their offspring.

I don't think anyone had it easier overall than anyone else, every generation has its own struggles. I think in most cases it's six of one and half a dozen of the other, the older generation sometimes don't understand quite how much house prices have inflated relative to wages but he younger generations struggle to see the other issues and struggles 'they' were up against. It's very much a them and us attitude and it's unpleasant imo.

Focus your anger at the source of the problem - which is rising inequality and uncertainty caused by a tiny minority of incredibly wealthy people, who have control over a huge proportion of assets.

Consequently they can set the agenda, essentially behave however they want and governments pander to them. A good example is Vodafone being let off a tax bill by HMRC of approx £7bn. Yes really: Seven BILLION pounds. Would you or I get let off paying our tax if we made a mistake on a self-assessment?

Yes there are some older people who are ignorant of some of the struggles that younger people face today. But there are ignorant people in every generation. A few people voicing nonsense does not make them the spokespeople for the entirety of their peer group! Every generation had its struggles:

My Grandma - born in 1905. Was one of 13 and lived in a slum. Worked as a flower girl on the streets at age 8. Pulled herself up by her bootstraps and ended up running a cafe as her own business, which enabled her to buy a small house - that she lived in until the day she died.

My Mum - born postwar and therefore a "boomer". Is disabled, in extremely poor health and reliant upon benefits. Lost everything due to Black Wednesday and the crash - where interest rates went up to 15% and people's businesses were going bust and there were repossessions everywhere because people literally couldn't afford to keep going. Had to stop work when she was pregnant with me (70s) as pregnant women weren't allowed to keep doing the job that she had at the time.

Me - born at the very end of the 70s, so just outside of the millenial age range. Left home with very little (see above for reasons why!). Now own my own home (mortgaged), good job, pension nothing to write home about. Worked two jobs to afford the deposit for the house - and moved counties to buy where I could afford. Started as an apprentice trainee in my industry and worked my way up. Pension is not final salary. My sister is a millenial, owns her own home and plenty of her peers do as well. They've done what I did which is move to where they can afford and adjust their expectations in terms of what their buying power will give them.

So I'm currently better off than both my Mum and my Grandma were. I have a nicer house, better job security and terms and conditions. If I were to have DC I'd have maternity pay and rights. Looking at the three generations in my family, is the "boomer" really at fault?

It's facile and reductive to try and pin the entirety of the problem on a single generation.

Every generation has it's issues to deal with. It's just that they may be different issues and come at a different point in their lives. I was born in 66, my parents lived in poverty. We were a large family living in a small council flat, they both worked, dad nights and mum days. I left school in 83 and couldn't afford to go to uni despite there being more grants etc. because the fact is that we needed the money from my earnings for the house. I left into the highest unemployment rates ever and got a job (2 in one week actually) and bought a flat (with a sibling) during the highest interest rates ever. We lived on pasta and butter for a long time and had patio furniture in our living room and froze quite a lot of the time. Our expectations were not of having the best of everything which I think can be a factor now as I think we have spoiled our children based on us not having things.

Do people seriously think that every decision we made in life was to screw over those coming behind or do you think maybe we were just doing what we could to better ourselves and make a better life for our children?

I don't buy into the millenial snowflake bit either, but people need to stop feeding into a growing sense of entitlement and disastisfaction which is being pushed by media and organisations as that way leads to underachievemnet and and a miserable life.

None of us knows what the future holds so we need to be preparing our young people to go through life with confidence and enthusiam to take on what opportunities they can.

I saw an article that defined homeowners v renters as have/have nots.

Home ownership in mexico is much higher than the UK and renting in Germany is much higher than the UK. So in theory then you are more likely to be a "have not" in germany than you are in Mexico?

It's all nonense really, we need to be looking at a different way of living.

OhtheRoses and Junebirthdaygirl has it spot on. To be frank, I'm sick to death of BBB.

That's Baby Boomer Bashing to the uninitiated.

How did we get from the attitude of revering our older people and wanting to take care of them to thinking that they are the devil incarnate and should be paying double the tax to give to people in the prime of their lives to spend on the holiday of a lifetime probably?

Do people seriously think that every decision we made in life was to screw over those coming behind or do you think maybe we were just doing what we could to better ourselves and make a better life for our children?

Exactly

Some retired people (certainly not all) do seem to be unaware that the job market and housing market have changed for the worse, and that the NHS and benefits system are not as easy to access in many respects, especially in the last few years.

This must be very frustrating if they are implying it is your fault if you are made redundant and can’t walk straight into a new job/save up a deposit for a home with what you save from not buying coffee/go to the town hall and get put straight onto the list for a council house, etc.

My mum is of an earlier generation than the Boomers and she does understand all of this and is frustrated on behalf of younger people.

There is a lot o stereotyping. I think the comments have nothing to do with babyboomers and more to do with older generations sometimes looking at the past with rose-tinted spectacles. They don't remember what was hard or easy and are often out of touch. This is nothing new. I am almost a baby boomer and my parents are too old to be babyboomers and I am often irritating with their lack of understanding, particularly with regard to pensions. When I was younger they irritated me by not understanding the cost of childcare etc.

Your mother is not ‘the baby boomer generation’ she is one individual - do you feel everyone your age is the same as you? Spoilt and entitled?

I’m a baby boomer. I saved hard to give my son a deposit so he and my DIL could buy a house. I almost have enough for my other son when he is ready to buy.
I have had my DGD for the last two weekends as her DPs are working shifts. I take her to school and collect her twice a week, her other GPs do the other days.
DH and I bought her a bike two weeks ago because I think a child should have a bike and I know my DS and DIL have enough financial stress paying their mortgage. We and her other GPs frequently buy her shoes and bits. I occasionally give DS a few bob when he is short at the end of the month. He currently owes me £200. He needed this to help pay for repairs.
I will plan my time off from work along with the other GPs to help with childcare during the school holidays.
There are many baby boomer grandparents just like me and DH.
So to the OP: Fuck off.

The problem is twofold; we have significant inequality as a society and a significant proportion of the population whatever their age are, and always were, prats who can't listen to other people.

People who can't understand other people having different situations have been a constant throughout history, but it's become a problem now, because economic changes mean different generations are living such different lives.

Let us use washing lines as a non-emotionally-charged topic to explain what I mean.

In the style of a Ladybird learning to read book...

Here is Mr Smith. Mr Smith line-dries all his washing because it is cheaper and more environmentally friendly, just like his mother did when he was a child. He has nothing but disdain for people who use tumble-dryers, just like his mother, Ma Smith, who thought spin-dryers were a ridiculous decadence. Ma Smith's reflexive comments of "why don't they use the garden like me?!" weren't a source of contention, because well, everyone did have a garden.

However, since then a couple of new estates have been built, and these houses and flats don't have drying space outside. Mr Smith's son Fred rents one of these flats and has bought a tumble-dryer to go with it. Mr Smith is very cross about it, and asks Fred why he doesn't "just use the garden like me?!".

Fred does not have a garden. Mr Smith is a prat. Fred mutters under his breath about baby boomers a lot every time his dad visits. He is saving for his wedding and a house deposit. Mr Smith says he would have got there by now if it wasn't for the tumble dryer costs.

Fred is now plotting Mr Smith's death by fatal gardening accident.

Jamie, thats all true, but if Mr smith actually thought about why fred didnt put his wash out to dry ( because he can't) then he might start to understand a few more things about his situation. its the not thinking that gets up people's noses - the refusal to see the bigger picture and how things have changed a lot.
My mum hated the fact that i went back to work after ds1 ' look after your own child' was the mantra, i had to just block it out, she didnt understand, yet i was told and meant to understand about how hard they had it during the war years with rationing and bombs and not being able to get a council place for a while and everything else. there has always been a divide , but it is getting bigger these days and a few coffees or not buying avocados ( 2 for £1.60 )isnt going to make much of a dent when house prices are out of reach for so many people, not just a few of them and even people who have very well paid jobs as well, especially if your single as well.

Of course he would, but our Mr Smith is one of those sorts that can't think. They are deeply frustrating. We all know these people who consistently project their own experiences onto others, but we will only notice what kind of people they are circumstances reveal it!

I have a couple of them in my family and also a couple of other relatives, same age, who couldn't be better at listening and understanding the difference between house-prices and wages and the cost of childcare. It's not when you were born that makes you a truly pleasant family member, it's your willingness to learn from other people. But if Britain hadn't gone through the economic changes she has, I wouldn't know the first two could be such utter arses, because it just would never have come up.

jamie, i have one or two like that in my family too - why cant your son buy a place then? head tilt! just best to ignore i suppose, but its hard,

Oh, of course he can buy a house, 80s. He just needs to give up every single thing that makes him happy and live on baked beans on toast for the next four years, and he'll have... er... a chunk of a deposit for a flat!

Easy, eh?

On the subject of Avocados I think the price of avocado on toast at £16.00 in certain eateries is a horror that spans all generations. SIXTEEN ACTUAL POUNDS!?

I opted not to eat in that establishment.