AIBU to want to anonymously report someone who has a cash only job and not pay tax?

[KikiLondon1]

I have a friend (not close) who has a cash in hand job and doesn't declare the income. It really irks me because I work hard and hate seeing my payslip and all the tax etc that gets deducted.
They get benefits on top of this also (which if she declared her income she wouldn't be entitled to).
I guess I've always been live and let live so would be very out of character for me to report her but on the other hand - I think it's just so unfair.
My oh thinks she'll get caught eventually and just leave it.
It's stealing though. Thoughts?

Personally I wouldn’t report, the government cannot be a victim of crime.

1600 to 1700 per month assuming she works five days every week. That is 19200 a year plus benefits. Why does she think that not pahing her tax and national insurance is something to be congratulated on. Why am I subsidising her life when she can support herself without benefits but chooses not to.
It is stealing. End of.

I never once said the 'friend' is right to do it. I never once said there isn't anything that can be affected by the 'friend's' wrongdoing. Though I'd argue corporations have a bigger impact.

I never even said I would do the same given the opportunity.

We all decide what our line in the sand is. I see no reason to do the government's job for them. They employ people to detect. If one of those people ask the OP, I would suggest the OP tells what she knows. Going out of her way to anonymously dob on her is as other PPs have suggested cowardly.

I have always paid my taxes, never claimed anything except child benefit when it was universal. I've always had enhanced sick and maternity pay, but yes have taken from the system. I ensure I also pay into it. The thing is I don't think of people as scum just because they live differently.

Criminalise her all you want on MN. I choose not to judge because I don't know. And will not do the government's job for them. As others have said stand up for what you believe in, don't be anonymous. This is not my line in the sand.

@PositiveVibez or just don’t do benefit fraud and then there is no need for people to report you

Report it. People who do this are stealing from everyone effectively.

It always amazes me that MN condones benefit cheats/tax fraud.

Why is the OP the one at fault here?

OP, please report her and don't feel bad for doing so either.

Klioresta, I'm sorry you had to go through that. You are absolutely right that the rules around tax and benefits are massively flawed and do nothing for vulnerable people. The posters who want everyone reported who are just trying to get by in life have clearly never had to struggle or face this type of uncertainty and this blanket black and white argument about the rules is uncaring and unpleasant.

Whilst clearly some people are trying to cheat the system the vast majority are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The OP has already said her friend is not on the breadline so can some posters stop pretending that her friend is struggling. Put down the violins. £80 per day , if working full time, would give her a decent taxable and niable income and then to get benefits on top, she is doing quite well. Even if she was struggling, there are plenty of honest people earning the same amount who still pay their tax and NI and don't commit benefit fraud.

@Faultymain5 - you do realise that the people employed by the government to investigate are funded by taxpayer money? If everyone took the attitude that 'it's not my job' then either the cost goes way up to employ enough people, or the efficiency goes down because there's not enough manpower to cover without the general public providing tip offs.

"If she isn’t doing anything wrong then she’s got nothing to worry about."

"And if it turns out she's totally legitimate then it will all come to nothing."

This is a big problem with those 'happy and willing to report'

This is NOT TRUE! if she's doing nothing wrong she is barely scraping by so by reporting her she faces MONTHS of no further income, investigations, no way to pay her bills or feed her family and even if she's found not to have done anything wrong - that money is not returned, it's not backdated. What COULD easily happen to an INNOCENT person is they could even end up homeless.

As a pp pointed out op is going off gossip, it could even have been a flippant sarcastic remark "oh yea I'm raking it in, Sh don't tell the taxman 😉" when actually she's just using humour to deal with a harsh reality.

Spase - but we're NOT saying it's ok to do we're saying it's highly unlikely that's what's really happening! Op hasn't even said WHAT benefits - not all are out of work benefits or even means tested! There was a thread recently op thought someone was committing benefit fraud - the benefit the recipient got was a non-means tested benefit that wasn't an out of work one either. People who haven't dealt with the benefits system are ignorant of how it works. Even some in work benefits you're allowed to keep claiming in certain circumstances! It's very complicated.

I'm not familiar with the self employed tax system maybe there are exemptions for certain business owners or type of business and that applies here?

I'm pretty sure if you move from some out of work benefits to self employed you can keep claiming benefits for 6 months to a year idea being until the business is earning and established enough to replace that income.

The only FACT here is the op DOESN'T KNOW!

Barbaro - you are COMPLETELY out of order accusing those of us disagreeing with op of being criminals. Never committed a crime in my life. 'Report her it's fraud' not even the op knows this NO WAY you can POSSIBLY know.

As for "less fraud would mean more money for essential services" not bloody likely under this govt! Far more likely to go to big businesses that don't need it!

elessar I thought I was leaving this thread. I've said my piece.

However, when we fly on a plane we know it damages the environment. We do it anyway. It is not against the law.

When we buy products that contain palm oil from non sustainable rainforests we know orangutans homes are in jeopardy, we do it anyway. It's not illegal.

There is no legal requirement for me to do the job that the government pays individuals to do. Tell me why if I get on the plane, knowing the fall out you have no problem with it. If I buy a favourite hazelnut product you have no issue with it. But my not agreeing to report someone the OP clearly does not have all the facts about. You have a problem.

My DS reminded me the other day, there's tons of crap going on in the world, I can't fix it all. My suggestion is fight against what sticks in your craw, let the rest go. This does not stick in my craw. I've let it go. Mostly cause there are no facts.

I think Graphista makes her point well. Better than I ever could. But the great thing about opinion is, you are equally entitled to yours.

Well as a Chartered Accountant I do understand the tax system which is why I advise the OP to use the reporting system provided by HMRC. This would not affect any benefits the person was claiming, it simply allows HMRC to check if the correct amounts of tax were being paid on the income the person receives. HMRC only link reports to the benefits system once they have investigated tax evasion claims themselves. The report would not even include information from the OP about benefit claims.

Another issue some of you seem to be overlooking is that her employer is probably avoiding their liabilities, not just for the individual, but anyone else they are paying in the same way. If the OP is being paid cash in hand and no PAYE/INC is being paid, the employer is evading their obligations to pay National Insurance and Auto Enrolment pension contributions, which is unfair. The person concerned is potentially being diddled herself out of the right to sick pay, maternity pay and a future pension. If the person concerned is an employee, it is her employer's responsibility to deduct & pay across tax to HMRC, so they are the one at fault. The individual is only likely to be responsible if they are self employed and are not declaring their income through self assessment.

'the government cannot be a victim of crime'

the rest of us can, though. we pay for those who dont. ffs.

Do you really believe that Freds? That if op contacted hmrc mentioning also possible benefit fraud they wouldn't contact dwp? I don't

Yes Graphista, it's my profession. Have you used the system? There are no questions regarding benefits, as the system is for reporting suspected tax evasion, not benefit fraud. That is any entirely different system. HMRC don't waste time liaising with other agencies for groundless claims. They will only share information is a fraud is known to have occurred or has probably occurred.

I could, of course, provide a link to the benefits whistleblowing service as well, but to be honest, I'm more concerned about the tax position from both the person's perspective if they are self employed and not declaring income or their employer who may be getting away with with a much bigger fraud.

If she’s earning under £113 a week (which she could be if she’s only working 1 day a week) then it is below the tax and NI thresholds and she’d just need to tell the Dwp.

If she is getting more than that cash in hand here is the advice from HMRC’s website:

Declare or report cash in hand pay
‘Cash in hand’ payments for work are like any other income - they must be declared to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).
Report cash in hand pay
Report a business or your employer to HMRC if they’re paying workers ‘cash in hand’ without paying Income Tax or National Insurance.

Contact the HMRC fraud hotline to report tax evasion online or by phone.

For your own safety you shouldn’t:

try to find out more about the fraud
let anyone know you’re making a report
encourage anyone to commit a crime so you can get more information
You risk losing your employment rights and some benefits if you accept cash in hand payments, and may have to pay the tax and National Insurance contributions yourself.

No I haven't used it. I don't waste time stabbing people in the back. If I thought someone was acting illegally I'd caution them against doing so but other than that no I'm not becoming a spy for the elite wealthy nobs who have no idea what it's like to struggle.

You don't even say how many days a week she works. And as said above she may not be breaking the law anyway.

I would (and have) it’s people like that who perpetuate the ‘benefit scum’ bollocks and will end up cocking up the entire welfare system

i am not going to become a spy for wealthy elite who doesn't know what its like to struggle

I like the the way you put that. I probably wouldn't report either op.

Just forget about it. As pp said if you want to report.. Write to mp about large faceless tax dodging companies.
Reporting this woman might spark off terrible domino effect.. You don't know her life.

Fucking right id be reporting her. It is fraud after all.

Amazon and Starbucks aren't doing anything illegal are they? Morally wrong but not illegal so you not comparable.

I agree that what this friend is doing is stealing and yes I think I would report it.

The reason I care about benefit fraud is precisely because I do NOT denigrate those on benefits. I don't want impoverished or disabled people to have to get by on even less because of thieves stealing from the very limited pot. Nor do I want the 'benefit fraudster' stereotype to be perpetuated, which it will be if, well, people are committing benefit fraud.

The latter is a lesser issue though, since most people claiming benefits are rightly entitled to them.