Civil Service: has anyone worked as a diplomat or as a private secretary?

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I currently work in the Civil Service in an entry-level role. I’ve just started the job and I’m really enjoying it, but I’ve also started to think about what I might like to do over the next few years.

I’d love to stay working for the Civil Service if possible, either in the same department that I’m in now or in another department. I’ve heard that people can change departments but that it might be tricky.

I’d like to look into working at the Foreign Office and working in diplomacy, but I’m not sure how achievable that is. Is it the done thing for people to move departments? I’ve also heard that the Foreign Office is a particularly difficult department to get into as it’s quite competitive. One option would be to apply for the Foreign Office/diplomatic service via the Civil Service Fast Stream, although I know that’s also very competitive. Does anyone have experience of working in diplomacy? What’s it like? It sounds very challenging but I imagine it can be quite rewarding and exciting.

Also, this is much more of a long-term career plan, but I’m really interested in working as a private secretary in the Civil Service further on down the line. I understand that this is a very senior post, so it is a very long-term career aspiration.

Does anyone has any direct experience of working as a diplomat or as a private secretary please? I’ve read a bit already about what it involves, but it would be great to hear from anyone who’s worked in these areas before.

Thanks.

Bump :)

Anyone?

I'm an Assistant Private Secretary! What do you want to know?

Should add I have worked as a PS to a less senior person in my last role, I am now an APS to a Permanent Secretary so was promoted into my current role.

My DH is a civil servant. He came through the fast stream and has moved departments several times. It seems to be encouraged to move jobs if you want to progress. A friend of ours did an entry level job in the foreign office and progressed into some really interesting work, he got the MBE and is now in a foreign embassy. I would look out for jobs that interest you and try to work your way through the grades, and also apply for fast stream. Good luck!

No, but there is no way I would want to work for the department currently headed by the worst government minister in living memory, Boris Johnson.

I do OP

What do you want to know?

I am gatecrashing. DD is in second year at uni. Where do I send her off to find out about graduate entry and civil service exams?

Departments other than the foreign office send staff overseas Eg BEIS and DFID. Often they are based in an embassy and get diplomatic status while there. Are you definitely in a department that doesn’t? Just thinking you could try and find someone within your department who might be able to tell you about their experience at least.

Thanks for your posts, everyone - these are all really helpful. If anyone has any more advice, please feel free to post on here.

The FCO bods didn't seem to get as good a deal financially as the military here in Brussels. Furthermore, many of the lower ranked FCO jobs are now locally employed - that is, they get someone local to do them (at a greatly reduced salary from the advertised one), be that a true local, or a trailing spouse.

I would think having a language skill would be useful for the FCO; one of dh's colleagues got good jobs because he was fluent in Japanese.

Another way might be to see if your current department does secondments abroad - again, in Brussels there are FCO and MOD Civil Servants working at both NATO and UKREP.

You can get experience in private office at any level. Your current department will probably offer a private office understudy scheme if you're interested.

Also possible to transfer to the FCO on level transfer - you don't have to get in via the FCO Fast Stream. Bear in mind that if you get a job there, before you start you'll probably have to go through a full security clearance process which takes months.

What level PS do you want to be? If you want to be a PS to a Director General or a Perm Sec then you’re looking at being at least a G6. Directors in my dept have G7 PS and Deputy Directors have O or HO depending on the complexity of the business area.

Don’t know anything about diplomats though. Sorry.

A PS role isn’t that senior, unless it’s changed since I took VES two years ago. Our SPSs were G7s, the PSs and the APSs were mainly all Fast Stream.

I think Private Office is okay for six months to a year but no longer. Just because your life isn’t your own, you have to work long hours, and overtime is capped at a really low rate (well it was in the Dept I worked in) and you can only take leave during recess. Plus if you get an awful Minister it just makes it ten times harder.

I worked in the wider Private Office team for two years, at the beck and call of No10. Glad I did it but it was only bearable as the person I dealt with at No10 was a decent chap.

Whatever they call UKTI nowadays has overseas postings, they used to do an overseas attachment scheme, OATS, for 6-12 months, not sure if they still do.

I did the civil service fast stream. If you're a good logical thinker you'll walk it. It was a good move so I'd say go for it.

They are veering towards locally engaged employees where possible, and yes, that extends to consuls and other prestigious titles. Tis the end of the expat gravy train. But it’s also a great adventure, you will rotate every three years, every third posting needs to be ukbased. (But the salary doesn’t go up, so essentially you have lean years in London postings). However this is mitigated by generous mortgage payments and also housing allowances so people save that.

But if you want the adventure, it’s a fab life. We only quit because we wanted kids 🙂

No experience of Foreign Office but I was an APS to a minister in another high profile department - I loved it. Very hard work, challenging and long hours but I was with a good team and it was lots of fun. Go for it!

Thanks, everyone - I was wondering about roles like working as a Private Secretary for a Minister or Prime Minister, for example, and what this would involve. I imagine this is a very senior role though.

Not necessarialy. I don't work in private office but I am in number 10 a few times a week for various meetings. The most junior private secretaries to the PM are "band A" which is meant to be grade 6/7 but as there is a "band A+" which is basically 6 it may as well be a grade 7. If you are covering a bigger brief then you would be at DD level.

I know loads of people who are private secretaries to ministers and Secretaries of State. Depending on how the office is structured you can generally get a pretty substantial role as a fast streamer. Obviously if you want to be a principal private secretary then that is a much more senior job. Most private offices are desperate for people to cover for holidays etc (I've done it a few times in a SoS office), contact your own departments private offices and sign yourself up for cover (if your manager agrees). they particularly like people who will do repeat covers so I would make it clear you want to do that.

I locumed as a PS for a SofS and it nearly killed me as it’s the sort of role you don’t get the chance to be eased into it. You just have to do it immediately. But I think I could have got addicted to the role over time. I wish I had done a proper stint as I had the chance but said no. It is a bit sad knowing that that sort of role isn’t that compatible with family life and I might never get the chance to do it again.

It's many years ago now but I was a private secretary to 3 different Secretaries of State. It was exhausting (I usually worked from 8am until 10pm every day and was on call one weekend in three) but I absolutely loved it and there was a great camaraderie in the team. I did it for 2.5 years and that was enough. It was definitely a young person's job.

I think these days changes have (rightly) been made to reduce workloads but it's never going to be a 9-5 job. In my day, we didn't have understudy schemes, so it was very difficult to get time off and there were far fewer of us in the office than there are now, so we had bigger portfolios. On the other hand, we had fewer emails to contend with. The vast majority of stuff came in on paper.

It was also just as mobile phones were being introduced. Batteries used to run out very quickly. When we were out for the day I used to take a pager and the single office mobile. I used to get messages from the office on the pager, asking me to switch on the phone and call them!

If you have the chance, go for it. It's a wonderful experience for anyone interested in politics.

Thanks so much, everyone. It’s been so interesting to read your posts. For G7 roles, how long (roughly) would it take to get to G7 level from EO level? Or is that a bit of a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question?

Yes, it depends on how capable you are, credible and a element of the stars lining up.

There’s is no guarantee of progression. The fast stream is the quickest route to G7 otherwise you’re looking at 12-24 months at each level to obtain the competencies/experience. However it’s best to do a range of roles across professions and get to know departments. It’s likely that you’ll need one or two sideways moves too.

Do you have a CS mentor? I’d recommend going into mentor match.