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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask about a US Visa when there's a criminal record

92 replies

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/05/2018 13:26

Posting here for traffic and with some minor details changed to avoid outing - hope nobody minds

My cousin's daughter is currently planning a San Francisco honeymoon and has a record involving a 2 year suspended sentence which she got in another EU country - she's British but the crime happened on holiday. For context, she insists she was stitched up and won't be declaring it when applying for an ESTA

I've got horrible visions of the newlyweds being turned away at immigration, and while in many ways it's none of my my business, it would certainly cause a family wide row which would rumble on for ages (but which I'll aim to keep out of). I did once ask - very gently - if they'd considered possible issues, got my head bitten off and certainly don't intend to raise it again

But please does anyone know if a conviction in a different EU country to your own would be a problem for the Americans? I won't be passing on any info either way, but I'm now genuinely curious as to how it works (and the US websites are as clear as mud)

OP posts:
BritInUS1 · 12/05/2018 13:59

She would be lying on the ESTA and if caught, as others have said, would have big consequences

Lucked · 12/05/2018 14:00

Just say it’s a bad idea but don’t get drawn into it. It is her problem to worry about.

Mia184 · 12/05/2018 14:00

My brother had a record which involved a fine. He had to wait until the record was clear before he could go to Canada. I would assume that the US is stricter than Canada?

swingofthings · 12/05/2018 14:01

Surely if it was a case of just ticking boxes and them just going on what we feel like stating, they wouldn't have bothered with the ESTA in the first place, they would ask you if you have a criminal offence when you get there.

There must be some checks done, the question is what do they really have access to. They might do with the country where the offense took place. Frankly, if she's not bothered lying in such an official document, it does warrant the question as to her honesty about what actually happened when she got arrested.

Storm4star · 12/05/2018 14:05

I think it must have been random, and yes the quota thing makes sense. I think anyone would be mad to lie on their visa forms. The consequences are just too severe.

FleurDelacoeur · 12/05/2018 14:05

She has to declare the crime. Whether or not she is allowed a visa will depend on the crime. Lying is a really bad idea.

Original poster
Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/05/2018 14:05

Thanks, everyone ... I really appreciate your help

I'm trying not to make this identifying, but the timescale means the conviction definitely won't be "spent" and it involved injury to a government employee. I don't know whether it would come under "intent to cause serious harm" (which is classed as Moral Turpitude) or just common affray (which isn't), but a PP said, the sentence length maybe suggests the former

And yes, of course it would be sensible to declare this, but she's determined not to do that so goodness knows what will happen

OP posts:
myfriendbob · 12/05/2018 14:07

It's not a close relative, she sounds like a complete horror anyway, so why do you care? Just let her make a big mess, not your monkeys!

Chanelprincess · 12/05/2018 14:08

This topic has come up recently and it was clear that no one on a public forum can provide reliable advice - she has a criminal record and needs to speak with the US embassy. Not declaring this is the action of an naive idiot who clearly never travels anywhere.

Storm4star · 12/05/2018 14:09

If she lies she potentially has more to worry about than just being “turned away” she could find herself locked up! But, as you said OP, she won’t listen to you so will have to take her chances!

lljkk · 12/05/2018 14:10

Do Americans/TSA even have the concept of 'spent' convictions? I suspect not. Juveniles usually get their records sealed, but that's different wish Brits sealed juvenile records but that's another debate.

lljkk · 12/05/2018 14:10

What are the consequences other than deported? Last thing USA wants is more expensive people to house in own prisons.

MissCherryCakeyBun · 12/05/2018 14:16

The consequence is deported and never allowed to return,
a woman that attacked me and got a 2 year suspended sentence for and was not allowed in to the US and bloody right too. Lots of people said that the judge was to hard on her ( lots of people being her friends and family) the police were very supportive of me and wanted a custodial sentence.....she breached her suspended sentence twice and got away with it too 😳

She sounds unpleasant and is obviously also a lier shame she can't go there and stay.

19lottie82 · 12/05/2018 14:16

Basically she will be lying on her ESTA
form and that is a criminal offence.

In the real world, the majority of people just lie and deny and wrong doing when applying for an ESTA. Unless you have any notes of interest you’re not going to get caught unless you have official observation notes in your passport they pull you at immigration, obviously there is a chance of that happening, but if you look respectable and aren’t drunk ect then that’s a minute chance.

I think 25% of all U.K. males have some sort of criminal record?

I know scores of people who have minor offences on their records and have failed to mention then and had no problems mentioning them.

I know a handful who have declared them and had to visit Belfast or London, for an interview and apx 50% of them have been rejected.

As I said, there are plenty of people on here who will disagree with me but honestly, 99.9% chance, it will be fine.

Mia184 · 12/05/2018 14:17

I live in Germany and go on business trips quite often. Whenever I’m on a flight within the Schengen states, I do not have to show any form of ID. I’ve joked that I could let my mother fly. So obviously there are some sort of checks between buying flight tickets and boarding a plane. If I were your sister, I wouldn’t risk it.

ILikeMyChickenFried · 12/05/2018 14:17

I'm in an Facebook group for Disney holidays, this comes up surprisingly often. The vast majority of people are able to sort out the visa thing when their esta is declined. It takes a bit of time and money but I've never noticed anyone be declined for "minor" assault type crimes.

19lottie82 · 12/05/2018 14:20

There must be some checks done, the question is what do they really have
access to.

There’s not. Well maybe random ones at the point of The visa waiver application, but at the point of immigration, there aren’t any. When they scan your passport their computers are in no way linked to U.K. records. The only way the could find out if if they pull you in for extra questioning and conduct further checks by Calvin your home country.

Original poster
Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/05/2018 14:20

How would it cause a family row?

Because it always ruddy well does!! Hmm It was bad enough when the parents went to the EU country for the trial - another thing I kept well away from - but if the Americans come down hard it will be everyone ringing everyone else to tell them how right they are, how unfair it all is and how everyone who doesn't agree is a complete b**tard

OP posts:
qwertyuiopy · 12/05/2018 14:22

DH travels for his job. He says he's had colleagues stopped and investigated for many reasons ranging from incomplete hotel address on entry form to, like us, needing to fulfill quota of topped people.

Not a chance I'd take.

Plus she knows damn well she's not allowed in in the "normal" way or she wouldn't be lying. Silly woman.

dayinlifeof · 12/05/2018 14:22

I'm trying not to make this identifying, but the timescale means the conviction definitely won't be "spent" and it involved injury to a government employee.

OK, so she doesn't mention it, gets the ESTA, goes and is (for some random reason) stopped at immigration. She is going to appear nervous and stressed at having lied to a government employee. They then check with the UK police and find she has a criminal record for injuring a government employee.

She must be somewhat dim if she cannot see the prospects of this ending badly for her.

qwertyuiopy · 12/05/2018 14:22

stopped people, not topped... !

qwertyuiopy · 12/05/2018 14:25

It's not just at the airport, It is for the entire stay. If her bag got stolen, if she was in a fire or a fight, if she was in a speeding car or an accident, if she had to be evacuated from somewhere, if a random person came up and punched her in the street... stuff out of her control. Any of this could mean her name is put into the system

Why go and be scared everyday that she will be caught?!

VQ1970 · 12/05/2018 14:28

The USA does not recognise the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, therefore her crime will never be ‘spent’ as far as the USA is concerned. I have a conviction and as such, can not travel under ESTA which is the visa waiver programme so people saying just get a waiver instead are wrong. My conviction was in 2011 and I had to apply for a Visa to allow me to enter the USA which incidentally, isn’t a guarantee of entry, I still have to explain myself to immigration every time and hope they say yes. So far, they’ve never stopped me but I have been taken off to one of those little rooms for a chat! They were lovely though and very considerate and polite.

If she honestly answers the question about convictions on the ESTA it is likely her visa waiver will be declined and then she’ll need to apply for a Visa. It’s an arduous process that involves quite a bit of money, an interview at the American Embassy and is very time consuming. And they are shit hot on paperwork, if anything is wrong you won’t be seen. Because of where I live in the Channel Islands it involves a flight and hotel stay. The first time I applied I was given a one year visa. I had to repeat this process when that had run out and I now have a ten year visa but that only has a couple of years left so will be renewing it again when necessary.

I honestly don’t know how they would know if I had lied about my conviction but I like America and I wasn’t prepared to take the risk of being turned back after spending all of that money to get there and not being allowed to go again.

I think she would be very stupid to take that risk.

troodiedoo · 12/05/2018 14:30

Would it also invalidate her travel insurance? That could be expensive!

qwertyuiopy · 12/05/2018 14:36

Let us know what happens OP!