School bans pencil cases - AIBU to think this is a superficial measure?

[ScreamingValenta]

I was fascinated to read this BBC article today:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44075878

A school has banned pencil cases (and other branded items) to avoid the stigma poorer pupils may suffer because they don't have 'designer' school kit.

This has made me feel very old - in my schooldays in the 1980s, everyone got their pencil cases from WHSmith or Woolworths, and it was fashionable to have an ancient, scribbled-on, falling-apart pencil case with the name of your favourite band tippexed onto it - new, expensive pencil cases were for geeks only.

Are designer pencil cases really a thing now? Does banning branded things in schools really help with bullying or is it a superficial tick-box exercise? Should schools not be addressing the underlying issues which create a culture of stigmatising poorer pupils - banning designer items in school won't stop pupils being seen out of school or on social media wearing unbranded clothes?

I know nothing about what goes on in schools nowadays, other than what I read on Mumsnet, so I'm not really qualified to answer my own questions - I'd be interested to hear any up-to-date perspectives from parents or teachers.

Oh this is my favourite:

What about university. Should all uni students now wear uniform and not bring pencil case or bags too?

Yeah, because unis are stuffed full of kids from the most deprived areas of the north east who've been missing school days every week since primary because their families don't have the money to buy them pe kit!

For. Fucks. Sake.

So what are you suggesting Then?

Dropping off kids By staggered appointments?

Designated routes to school that avoid walking past the stables or the big house on the crescent?

Ban all conversation unless it's about woodlice incase someone overhears?

How far do you go to try and hide something the kids already know?

If there's one thing worse than having nothing it must he people actively avoiding coming amd talking to you incase they accidently let slip they got a puppy

Don't you think that's even more divisive ?

I'm suggesting not thinking I know better than the charity for whom this is their entire focus, and the woman who runs the school and spends 5 days a week working with these families. For starters.

Of course you can't deny or erase all evidence of different wealth backgrounds. But you can take some of it away, which might in turn remove the relentless feeling of being the 'have not'. So that for some of your school day, you are the same as your friends. For some of your day, you aren't the one who stands out. For some of your day, you aren't worried about being embarrassed for something you have no control over.

But no, let's not try to do that, because it seems 'silly' to people on the internet with no actual involvement with the area or school!

My children are from one of the most deprived areas in the North East. I was raised in one of the most deprived areas in the North East.

Reducing or altering dress-up days, I can understand, ditto MUFTI days. My heart sinks every time one of the DC run home clutching a letter demanding a pink t-shirt or the like because I know it means a trip to Primark and then scouring the net and going over budget when Primark has no pink t-shirts and the only pink t-shirt to be found for miles around costs three squillion pounds from Next.

I am also on board with handing out free school uniforms, especially if they include shoes. Shoes are the bane of a low income family's life.

But they are spectacularly missing the point by banning pencil cases and branded goods. Kids aren't bullied because they're poor, trust me, I was poor and North Eastern, my friends were poor and North Eastern, my kids are poor and North Eastern. Kids are bullied for any number of reasons beyond which pencil case they have or whether they have the right Nikes. Take away the pencil cases and the NIkes and do nothing about the bullying and you'll achieve the grand sum of nothing when it comes to tackling bullying and social exclusion.

The kids interviewed in the article were saying what they thought the camera man wanted to hear so they could get their mugs on the telly box. I've been there, done that too only our interview was about underaged drinking. We all sagely announced we drank because we had nowhere to go and nothing to do. After the interview, we headed off to our LA funded youth club for our free kayaking lesson.

I do kinda see what you are saying boss

But I do think that these kind of interventions can lead to alot of hostility. Parents actively telling kids who used to play nicely together to not go near them.

Huddled in the corner shooting daggers at people they think complained and started all this .

When kids start in reception they don't care. They are as excited over a funny shaped rock as they are over someone's new hat.

The attitudes good and bad come down from the parents and something like this has the potential to piss off or upset parents and create an even nore hostile environment which in turn leads them to tell the kids to stay away

The poverty proofing is really interesting, lots of schools are looking at it.

I don't think that some posters on here get the impact of poverty.

Example:
A child in Year 1 never attended birthday parties or had one.

Christmas the school arranged to get presents from salvation army, charities and lots donated by staff. Christmas stockings were made for each of the children and taken round in the early hours of Christmas day. Loads of toys really amazing sackfuls which the children work up to.

In January the girl attended a party and was full of it, writing all about it. The birthday girl brought in a gift from her party, I recognised it immediately as 1 of the stocking gifts. In 1 way it was heartbreaking but in another uplifting as giving those gifts brought more than just 1 day of pleasure.

Being so poor that you cant afford even the simplest gift and so your children don't attend parties.

Boss I wish there was a 'like' button. You said everything I wanted to say but more eloquently.
These changes are about these kids not having their inequality shoved in their faces all day everyday.
Adulthood lasts a long time - they can wait to learn these lessons. If these changes can save some 7 year olds from feeling shit at school, or even missing school (with all its long term implications), then it's worth it.
No kid ever died from not bring able to show off their stuff for a few hours!

Incidentally, the LA funded youth club I attended in my youth has been closed due to lack of funding from the government. That is the kind of thing Children North East need to be focusing on, not Smiggle pencil cases and Nikes. It gave me and my friends loads of experiences and opportunities we would never have otherwise had the chance of and really boosted our confidence.

If they truly want to reduce the impact of poverty they need to be campaigning for things like that to be reinstated along with extra funding for after school homework groups, tutoring and educational opportunities.

But you can take some of it away, which might in turn remove the relentless feeling of being the 'have not'

The relentless feeling of being the 'have not' in my experience, doesn't come from not having Nike or Smiggle, it comes from your mates going horse riding every Wednesday, or to gymnastics while you're going home to an empty house and an empty fridge because your parents are working their arse off to keep a roof over your head but the sums just don't add up.

If you honestly believe those children give a fuck about how many stripes their Adidas have you've clearly never been one of those of children or raised one of those children. Yeah, sure, they might want the best trainers, or whine and beg for a Superdry coat but if they could choose between a Superdry coat or the opportunity to go horse riding at a funded riding school every Wednesday, I can tell you which they'd pick.

So, the school should do nothing because they can't do everything?

As a previous poster said - I just wish my high school students would bring a bloody pen, pencil and ruler!

Incidentally I had a fluffy pencil case in the 80s. It was purple. At primary I had a Hollie Hobbie one just like this ...

No, the school should invest all the time they invested in researching the impact of pencil cases and trainers and all the money on the admin around researching the pencil cases and trainers and informing parents of the changes and dealing with all the complaints from (low income) parents about having to go out and buy a new backpack when they've only just bought a Galaxy one and put it into something useful like running an after school club one night a week for six weeks, or throwing a cost free teddies bear picnic at the end of term (with spare teddies handed to anyone who might need one).

As I said, the MUFTI day and dress up days, they've got spot on but the pencil cases and backpack and trainers is a) costly to the very people they're trying to help who've now spent money on backpacks and shoes etc and need to go and buy more now the rules have changed. It's all well and good saying enough notice was given but when you have approximately 13p left at the end of a week if you're lucky there is never enough notice that you have to buy shoes and backpacks times however many children you have in the school and b) a pointless waste of paper and effort.

To add a primary school teacher’s perspective, I’d happily ban pencil cases - particularly bloody smiggle ones.

They can be come a source of an awful lot of wasted time. Children become obsessed with their 17 smelly rubbers and prefer to try to sneakily line them up in their trays rather then listen to you. They cause arguments about who the cola-smelling pencil actually belongs to. Many own the exact same items. We’ve had chn swapping items then reneging on their argreements to much upset. Even incidents of stealing. Far too much wasted time spent sorting out issues related to bloody pencils cases.

The only reason my school hasn’t banned them is because our budget is so awful we can’t actually afford to fully stock up on the stationery equipment that the children’s smiggle addiction supplements.

Interesting too. When DD was at a naice church primary where all the dc were pretty middle class it was the occasional child from the more vocational family who kickdd off over others not having a super phone or the "right" trainers. It was also the child from the equally vocational family they upset. Not the surgeon's or barrister's child who didn't really give a flying quack.

When dd spent two years at a sought after cofe primary in SW London this sort of thing really mattered to the girls who didn't or who didn't quite have it. It really didn't to the girls from families who were better off and who thought it ridiculous and were happy to use a see through pencil case for £1 and wear their brother's old T Shirts.

When dd was transferred to an independent school only the occasional arse gave a flying quack about what anybody else wore, had or went on holiday and they suffered for it.

Quite a few of my friends had the furry pencil cases...........only problem is they got really matted after a while.

HelenaDove Aged about seven, I made the mistake of washing a furry pencil case in the bathroom sink using hot water and Biotex - it turned the acrylic into a mass of bobbles.

this sort of thing really mattered to the girls who didn't or who didn't quite have it. It really didn't to the girls from families who were better off and who thought it ridiculous and were happy to use a see through pencil case for £1 and wear their brother's old T Shirts.

Yeah, this is often the case. If you haven't got much then the status symbols become important.

It's a primary school so no need for pencil cases.

I think this is actually a case of the BBC journalist focussing on the pencil cases. BossWitch mentioned upthread that there is also a plan to reduce the number of own clothes / dressing up days (which makes sense).

The things that marked you out as being well off at my school were not having the local accent and having a decent haircut. These can’t be banned. I’m not familiar with Smiggle (my children are still quite young) but I can see the appeal of stopping kids from bringing the stuff in.

I think the issue arises when one particular brand dominates, be that Smiggle for pencil cases or Nike for trainers. When the brand itself becomes the coveted aspect, rather than the item itself (i.e. when children look for the recognised logo or whatever, rather than admiring the pretty notebook itself). And of course, this is the whole point of branding and marketing: to create status symbols and the illusion that spending £££ = luxury. Children are the victims of some very clever advertising and it is huge global business. I don't blame the schools from trying to break the stranglehold these brands sometimes gain in the playground. You can buy pretty, stylish pencil cases very cheaply indeed, so if they've banned pencil cases altogether then I assume it's because they were fed up of the overpriced Smiggle becoming the only acceptable brand.

Branded goods are important to kids with very little as they're an accessible way to be like your friends. It's actually quite easy to get your hands on a Superdry coat or Smiggle pencil case when you're poor. You simply ask for money for your birthday and Christmas. All those odd tenners and fivers from aunties and uncles and cousins add up and you can Smiggle to your heart's content.

My kids do it and when I was their age, I did the same.

They could spend their money on X weeks worth of trampolining lessons or riding lessons but what's the point when you'll burn through your money in a few weeks and have to quit?

There is going to be very little point pontificating about pencil cases if this comes to fruition.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/14/parents-carillion-childcare-collapse-nursery-provider

Frequency, the school didn't invest any time researching this. The initiative has come from the Children North East, Charity.

Over 100 schools are taking part and there have been improvements since the changes came in.

They, no doubt will be campaigning for more funding, for Children's and Youth services, but like every other LA, they won't get them.

I wish the kids in my school would actually bring a pencil case.