“Each missed appointment costs the NHS £152”

[TronIsAnAwesomeCatName]

Ok. I normally steer clear of AIBU, and am prepared to be flamed here because many people seem to treat criticising the NHS as blasphemy. But AIBU to think that £152 for 10 mins with your GP is just extortionate? How the flip does it cost the NHS that much for the GP to sit there and talk to me, maybe examine me (rarely seems to happen tbh) type a few notes on their computer? A private GP offers 15 min appointments for £55.
How is the NHS spending £152???

"if they have to ask, they can't afford me"

What a horrible little twerp!

All the admin, rent, power, etc costs are sunk costs and cannot be attributed to an individual appointment. Also agree with PP who said they should be grateful.that some people domt show up. I spent 40 mins this morning waiting for my GP appointment. I think she could've done with a few patients fewer than expected

I worked in a small hospital several years ago. We'd have clinics for some consultants once a month. All clinics would be booked to the hilt and appointments sent out.

Then, anytime from a week (if we were VERY lucky), or the day before, the consultant's secretary would ring us saying he wouldn't be attending as he was off playing golf/booked a last minute holiday etc. NOT illness.

Then it was all hands on deck calling people or sending out letters last minute, hoping we wouldn't have to deal with many (justifiably) annoyed patients.

We often "double-booked" patients to compensate for possible last-minute patient cancellations. Then we'd get the moans about the clinics being over-booked and people having to wait for hours, sometimes without a seat.

The consultant cancellations happened at the very least every few months. Some were quite arrogant about this, treating it as a right and not giving a shit about who they put out or how much it cost the NHS.

Of course, some consultants were lovely and wouldn't dream of doing something like this (mostly female), but it was an accepted norm in our hospital.

How much does that cost the NHS?

I work in a surgery but no idea how it's worked out to be honest. We are rd that if the patient arrived within the 10 mins they can be seen over the ten mins then they aren't so I suppose if the patient turns up 9 mins late they get seen and it knocks them behind a bit. We never over full appointments there is only a set number but we do have a on call To who will deal with anyone who feels they need to been urgently when we have no appointments left. Maybe they add this in but I just don't know how it works

I agree that for a GP appt it isn't helpful. However for the consultant clinics I organise a non attendance does cost a lot. We don't overbook and we only have a small number of patients per clinic. One or two not turning up is a waste of resource.

I think that would be factoring in everything for that 10 minutes.

ALL staff wages, building rents/maintenance, gas, electric, equipment costs and even computer systems licenses.

Could be wrong, but that’s what I would have thought.

When I left the nhs 8 years ago 20 minutes with me in podiatry was £65, it’s not hard to see how a dr would be £150.

I'm in the US and to see my GP it's generally between $80 and $200. $200 would be for a half hour appointment.

My GP is quite expensive too - there are others I could see for $40 for 10 minutes.

I find it hard to believe a 10 minute GP appointment in the UK really costs the NHS £120 - if it does then they are being incredibly inefficient.

so... I haven't read the full thread. But if each missed appointment costs this much then I can confirm that £1000s must have been lost at one particular hospital this week . (Also in the 3 YEARS of appointments I've had cancelled by two consultants , so probably TWELVE consecutive cancellations). With over a 120 minute wait time in an afternoon clinic, (vascular surgery) I saw at six people give up and cancel. There must have been many many more. Admin charges ahoy.
The issue I see is that the consultants working in vascular surgery usually work in one or two other private clinics as well. On the consultation day following referral they don't have essential equipment.. (Intentionally or unintentionally) so the patient is told "yes, thanks, come back in 3months for a scan" etc. Nhs simply fobbed off to free up the workload for that consultants private patients.
So eg. In private practice for vein surgery, a consultation will mean a history, a full scan , and an action plan. At my hospital, no scanner. So effectively a consultant uses a full appointment to do what the gp did in their referral.
My hospital appointment this week cost me a) after school club childcare charges
B) parking c) transport .
Nobody gave a shit.
3 years waiting for the consultant. It's insane.

And yes, I gave up and went home. Because 120 minutes was going to cost me an extra 40quid in childcare.

I have no sympathy for the bus currently, there a complete cluster fuck. I can barely get an appointment, and when I do I have to justify it to the receptionist.

Perhaps your GP practice can reveal their sources for the stat?
I suspect a very crude calculation, based on total NHS expenditure resulting from total number of GP appointments.

E.g. Total government expenditure 2017-2018 on daily running of the NHS is projected to be 108 billion

In 2013, total number of GP consultations was 340 million

That gives a cost of £317 per GP visit. And of course that was 5 years ago. I am sure there are many more GP appointments p.a. 2017-2018.

In essence, I suspect your surgery's stat is based on total cost incurred on average as a result of a visit to the GP. Some visits will lead to a cascade of medical treatment costing thousands; most won't. But I reckon they've just averaged it all out for a nice, alarming figure.

Just ignore it, and make sure you call to cancel an appointment in plenty of time. Job done!

I think it’s an excellent reminder to those who mix up the concept of free at point of access with there being no cost. Like the twits who say it’s doesn’t matter if they don’t pay the bus fare because the bus is going there anyway.

For all those pointing out the "true cost" of an NHS GP appt, why does that not apply in the ptivate sector as well? I mean a private GP still has admin staff, lighting costs etc.

Also aren't GP practices private concernd that get funding from the NHS?

Did the article specify a 10 minut GP appointment, or just say appointment?
My sister is an OT, before each patient she can easily spend 4 hours researching them, writing notes etc, depending on the case. If that patient doesn't turn up,it's all wasted.

But what I don't get about it, doctors are usually running behind, aren't they? (Don't mind this at all btw, it's understandable). So, why if someone misses an appt, don't they just catch ten mins back up? (And still be behind).

There wouldn’t be so many missed appointments is clinics ran on time. The amount of people I see cancel because they have been sat in the gps surgery waiting for a good 40+ minutesafter their appointment time is stupid. The same when my children have had consultant appointments at hospital because keeping a toddler happy for over an hour after their appointment time in a hospital is so easy. My dh just doesn’t go to the gp anymore as he spends so long waiting to see the gp he spends more of his working day traveling to and from the gp and waiting than he does at work. He ends up only getting medical treatment when work basically send him home because his that ill or I’ve sent him to the walk in because he can barely breath. Costing the nhs even more money because why could of been sorted quickly has been left to get worse because he can’t afford the amount of time off work to sit around waiting.

Oh my goodness the rubbish on here about consultants swanning around doing bugger all just to wind people up or make themselves money. What century are you in? They work huge hours in highly skilled and stressful jobs - you have no idea what pressures they are under.

And GPs being cheap and not as highly skilled or trained as a consultant? You try knowing about every medical topic under the sun and seeing 40 patients a day plus paperwork and meetings etc.

Who cares what the actual figure is- either call and cancel or don’t book in the first place

It’s rude to not turn up and in a massively overstretched system it is arrogant and wasteful whatever the cost.

Obviously, being a consultant is a highly trained highly skilled job. So I wonder why the Nhs have consultants doing the most basic of assessments.
So maybe a gp (also highly skilled) would be assumed competent enough to refer to the correct department for medical imaging directly. Then the consultant might review and then do the appointment. Instead of.
"Hello . I'm your consultant. Your doctor tells me you have a bad leg.
Come back in 3months for a scan. Appointment over. £150 that cost the Nhs. Thanks"

Lol Notthatwoman don’t tell me off, you’re making assumptions, I didn’t miss my appointment! Also, many of us personally know arrogant god-complex money-grabbing doctors, they’re not a myth, it’s a particular culture I guess. Many people are under huge pressure in their working lives, so we absolutely have an idea, thanks.

It wasn’t an article btw whoever asked that, it was in the reminder text for my appt. Guilt tripping before I’d got there.

I do take the point that a consultation can also include prep time/writing up time etc, but today my GP had not read my recent history, wasn’t aware I’d been prescribed new medication (that I was there to review!) and hadn’t read the letter from the specialist clinic, which I’d already checked if they’d received directly, they hadn’t, so had taken them a copy to add to my file last week. It hadn’t been added.

Anyway that’s just ranting about my particular poor experience today. Normally my GP is lovely and she does at least treat me like an intelligent human being to my face.

I’m glad that the MN hive mind seems to be concluding that the £152 is likely a made-up guilt trippy figure. Otherwise I was starting to get concerned that the NHS was spending 3 times what the private sector does - which didn’t sound like value for money for us.

Whether the figure is correct or not, the comments on this thread largely depress me.

I am ama dreaded NHS manager. You know, those awful drains on society. It's so disheartening to think that even now, people think that mismanagement and inefficiency are to blame for the creaking NHS.....We passed that point years ago. The fat has been trimmed, the low hanging fruit is long gone. The pressure to see more patients not even on the same budget but with less budget is incredible. It's overwhelming at times, on a personal level. And to think that some patients just think we are generally crap and want to make you wait and disrupt your lives. I don't know. Makes we wonder why I and my colleagues bother.

So whether missing an appointment costs a fiver or £156, I don't care. When you have to buy your own stationary, have to use out of date computers that slow you down and then deal with shitty attitudes, i fail to have sympathy for your indignation one sentence written on a letter that is trying to get us all to take responsibility for our most valuable public service.

Has everyone seen that things like sun lotion, athletes football cream and paracetamol will no longer be prescribed? Hear hear!

Athletes football cream sounds fun

Dreadful NHS bashing, I'm bloody grateful I live in a country where people don't die because they can't afford healthcare. I realise they still die for other reasons. I would do my best as a good citizen not to abuse the NHS so money wasn't wasted and unavailable to others. I realise you're probably perfectly capable OP of realising your appointment still costs money even though it's free but there are some who simply don't get that, reminding them isn't a bad idea at all imo

It's really good to remind people.
However. It would also be good to text the consultant before an appointment
"Dear consultant o holy revered creature of this earth. Do you know your patient is missing work/paying for parking/ covering childcare costs? Missing your appointment may also cost your patient £152, unbelievable though it is that a mere mortal could reach your earning potential"

There is an important distinction between 'each appointment' and 'each gp appointment'. Go appointments are much cheaper than those at outpatient departments.