To be fed up with the hoopla of jobhunting?

[BrightYellowDaffodil]

I am sick of it all. Spending hours writing cover letters or supporting statements (which basically just summarise my CV), for applications which only get an automated response along the lines of "Thanks for applying, if you don't hear from us you weren't successful".

Schlepping to interviews and having to perform like an over-eager seal for interviewers who subscribe to the crappy competency based questionning model, only for them not to bother letting me know the outcome of the interview for weeks, if at all. Even then it's often another generic email.

And that's before I get to recruiters who are all over me and ringing at all hours when they think there's some commission in it for them, offering me the job equivalent of the moon on a stick, before disappearing back into the ether and never to be heard of again.

Please, recruiters and employers, there's an actual human you're dealing with in this process. One who's trying really hard and would just occasionally like to have the effort they've made acknowledged.

Oh, and a job would be nice too.

Despondent of the South East

I was just having this conversation. Surely if you’re filtered out straight away there’s an option for an email to tell you. Not like it costs anything.

The quickest response I got was for an industry specific recruiter who was clearly sitting looking at his inbox. Email was roughly “no, we said x qualification but obviously need x + y + z”. Was less than 10 minutes from me hitting send. At least I know where I stood!

I mean a proper paid job not one where i cant afford rent or anything not that i mean min wage jobs arent proper because they are. I have worked in enough of them.

@Failingat40 recruiters are taking these kind of informal references all the time, it’s not unusual to ask for ‘off the record’ thoughts.

@SarfE4sticated there isn’t really, you have to input someone’s information into the database first which takes time and a person. It’s also generally a person sorting through, the CVs go into an inbox.

Maybe I'll create one @KirstenRaymonde

Just need to learn how to code!

As someone who uses a recruiter database all day long I can tell you they are not easy beasts! We always let people know one way or the other though, but it can be a nightmare if there’s 100 applications...

It’s all a load of rubbish really isn’t it?

Going to be interesting in a few years when there are hardly any jobs around due to mass automation!

I have just finally quit a job that has been battering my mental health for two years.

I've been applying for stuff and getting some interviews, but am now pretty worried tbh.

What sort of thing are you all applying for and where in the country?

recruiters are taking these kind of informal references all the time, it’s not unusual to ask for ‘off the record’ thoughts.

Exactly. Those on this thread who think this doesn't happen are fooling themselves. You don't have to like it or agree with it but if you're job hunting, you need to be aware that this happens. This may work against you or it could be the very reason why you get offered the job.

I've just done a sift for a competence based board civil service admin officer role. The instructions are simple: base it on ONE example. Of 150 applications, less than half managed to do that. Incredibly exasperating when applicants can't follow simple instructions.

I work in HR for a huge organisation. I’ve moved jobs, but used to sit on thousands of interview panels every year. We dealt with c. 40,000 applications a year, and still managed to acknowledge each one, and then give notification of whether or not we were progressing them to the next stage (via a generic email, to be fair, but no other way due to volume). I can’t understand how companies can’t do that as a minimum.

You do see some strange things though. I’ve seen situations where people apply for a very specific role (think a specific area of Engineering requiring ten years exp in a particular type of project) coming nowhere near the criteria (graduated two years ago with an Arts degree and working in tech support), getting an e-mail a week after the closing date to say they’re not being considered for interview, and then getting a response back that was full of expletives, threats, and vitriol. People are just awful sometimes.

I’m not job-hunting currently, but I did see an ad last year for a position that was exactly right for me. I met all the criteria, and then some, sent off my CV and got a response 4 minutes later (literally four minutes, I’m not being facetious) telling me that after “thoroughly reviewing (my) CV” I was deemed unsuitable. Four fucking minutes!

for those who say min wage jobs are ‘proper jobs’, why are they so low paid then?

without porters and cleaners (mostly NMW) the hospital couldn't function. The result, people die.

Without TA's/classroom assistants, many children wouldn't be able to access education. Same for 1 to 1's. The result, considerably less taxpayers.

Without minimum wage carers our elderly would suffer immeasurably. Some already do due to shortages in areas of the UK.
Without childminders (generally don't take much more than NMW after costs) parents, likely including you, wouldn't be able to get to work anyway.

Chefs are also very badly paid, but work extremely long hours in a stressful environment, is that a proper job? Because if not, the restaurants, takeaways and pub kitchens will have to close... chefs often don't take much more than minimum wage, same for waitresses and other retail staff. But I'm sure you go out for meals, I'm fairly sure you'd be pretty pissed if the skilled and experienced chefs in the country decided to go and get "real jobs". Particularly if they got replaced by students who don't have a clue... I could go on but I'm sure you get the point now.

Signed;
Someone who doesn't work a real job (since I'm on about 11p an hour above NMW) and never has, but owns a house.

Well said pie

For those who say min wage jobs are ‘proper jobs’, why are they so low paid then?
Basically, because society allows it. We (society as a whole) obviously see certain jobs, careers, professions - call them what you will - as not worthy of the pay they (IMO) deserve, for example care assistants - what would happen if suddenly there were no care assistants on min wage because they all got 'proper jobs' well, they'd be replacing the people already IN 'proper jobs' who are now having to care for their own elderly and sick relatives and can no longer do their 'proper job'.
Usually there is no chance of progression or training as most employers stipulate training has to be ‘relevant to your job’, which if you’re an admin assistant nothing ever is (I’ve been there)
No, in many areas there aren't chances to progress. But in others there are. Not everyone wants to, or can progress. But how does that make it any less of a 'proper job'? It may be a lower paid job, or a job with fewer prospects but it's still a 'proper job', to say not is kind of making min wage jobs sound like hobbies! Or that they're easy to get - even the min wage end of the spectrum is tough, you still have to jump through hoops, answer endless questions and imaginary scenarios to even apply, and still mostly don't hear anything back. Just because it's a min wage job, does that mean the person on the receiving end shouldn't feel the same as someone going for a higher paid job? Do they not have the right?

If tomorrow everyone got a 'proper job'
-who's going to serve the morning commute coffee?
-who's going to clean your hospital ward?
-who's going to look after grandad in his dotage?
-who's going to serve your meal on your evening out?

It just sounds like snobbery to me to label min wage as not a 'proper job' like they don't count and don't contribute when they absolutely do. And to imply that unless you're knocked back from a 'proper job' it doesn't count.
I've generally worked on or just above the min wage, and I've progressed in both major areas I've worked in - because I've paid for my own training to do it.

I was made redundant and job searched. Before I was made redundant I started looking online for jobs where my skills would be transferrable. I realized that I would probably have a longer commute or have to move. As it happened I did relocate and I now work shifts. I was very fortunate to gain employment quickly. Are other people willing to relocate and work strange shift patterns ? Job searching is hard, but necessary ! Good luck

I’m not job-hunting currently, but I did see an ad last year for a position that was exactly right for me. I met all the criteria, and then some, sent off my CV and got a response 4 minutes later (literally four minutes, I’m not being facetious) telling me that after “thoroughly reviewing (my) CV” I was deemed unsuitable. Four fucking minutes!

@JustHereForThePooStories Probably an ATS (applicant tracking system) was screening the CV's. If it does not pick up enough key words, the CV is rejected before a human sees it.

recruiters are taking these kind of informal references all the time, it’s not unusual to ask for ‘off the record’ thoughts.

After applying for roles recently, I could see that people who I have applied to had looked at my LinkedIn profile.

I was on a course related to job searching and the facilitator said to Google yourself and check the first 4 pages for any references to yourself and your activities. He said recruiters will sometimes Google potential employees. Even if your social media is locked down, all it takes is for someone else to tag you in a photo etc and it can appear.

Also he said that research shows that 25% of jobs are secured in the normal way (applications) the other 75% is via people the applicant knows / a network.

I’m always confused as to how people secure jobs via networking? In my experience at large companies and the civil service, you can’t just speak to someone you know and get a job. It’s all done applying via an advert, being sifted in, interviewed etc with HR involvement.

prestinp0st that is exactly what I did six years ago. Unfortunately, due to redundancy my DH and I moved back to my home town as to be mortgage-free (essential with us both out of work) that was the only place we could afford. If we had stayed in the area we were in, the best we could have afforded would have been a flat. Wouldn’t have bothered me (lived in flats and houseshares till I met DH in 2015) but he was used to a large, detached house. I’m still unemployed now, though got a very promising offer which will hopefully turn into a career. DH retired after the redundancy.

To those who jumped on me about NMW jobs, what I meant was that everyone deserves a decent wage! The thread was about the hoops we have to jump through to get jobs. My point was that it’s ridiculous to have to jump through such hoops to get a low-paid job with no responsibilities. My job at Christmas was done quite sensibly; brief phone interview asking for a couple of examples of customer service then an assessment at a hotel where we did a teamwork exercise then a role play involving sales. Both of these relevant to the actual role. Now companies do the exact same interviews and assessments whether it’s a job paying £8 or £80 an hour. My friend used to work in HR for a supermarket and said she was embarrassed by some of the things she had to ask people to do for shelf-stacking or till jobs. One guy actually stood up and said he was in the wrong interview as what he was being asked to do he thought was more for a management role.

I’m always confused as to how people secure jobs via networking? In my experience at large companies and the civil service, you can’t just speak to someone you know and get a job. It’s all done applying via an advert, being sifted in, interviewed etc with HR involvement.

As we all know, recruitment is expensive. Lots of larger companies now have an employee referral schemes. Where, if an employee refers someone for a role and gets hired, they receive a bonus. I think that is the type of thing they are talking about when they say 'network'.

Plus of course, once you get past the first sift, people will look you up on FB, LinkedIn, ask people who know you about you etc.

You probably won't get offered a job out of the blue via networking, but it may help you get your foot in the door, give you that wee push to the top of the pile.

MisscharleyP

That wasn't what you said though. Nowhere in that post did you say that you think everyone deserves to be paid a decent wage, rather -
for those who say min wage jobs are ‘proper jobs’, why are they so low paid then?

Which speaks for itself. If it's a low paid job, it's not a proper job. Your post and the post that started this off are quite clear, that in the context of this post about applying for jobs and being ignored/ knocked back etc, you don't consider a min wage job worthy. As in it doesn't matter about people who get knocked back from them, only 'proper jobs'.
My point is that it's still as soul destroying whether it pays £250 a week or £250 an hour if you're treated in the way pps have on this thread by employers.
You weren't 'jumped on' at all.

When I saw the comment about proper job, i mentally put the words in quote marks and imagined my grandmother saying it.

Weirdly, after applying for over 35 jobs since February, and hearing nothing, I was offered two interviews in the last two days. Neither job is quite what I'm after annoyingly, but I will take whichever one I'm offered and continue looking. Being out of work has really freaked me out, although I have enjoyed the time at home...

I think there may be different kinds of recruitments for differenty kinds of roles but I would have thought it was fari and normal that people check you out on line including your linkedin profile which most people write with potential future jobs in mind, surely? Also many companies try to get current members of staff to help them hire people and pay for that to avoid havingb to pay massive agency fees so that is loads of personal recommendation and you often do tend to get good people that way. However I do know the downside that you end up with everyone who is like the other person in that role and that applies across all sectors - in our minority white area the bin men are just about all white working class males and I know a legal department where evyerone ended up gay or lesbian like the head of that dept and ditto around the country and HR and most companies instead want the best people for the job and if you narrow it down to a characteristic so narrow you may be losing out on good people.

I am going through old diaries at present and recently covered my 1982 final year at university job application period which was so depressing. Everyone else was getting jobs but I had to do 139 applications and they were not just CVs, but special forms all by post in those days and then 25 interviews which i obviously was very bad at; then the elation when i got the offer in Feb 82! That was nice. I even have a photo of a pile of envelopes with stamps on laid out on the floor of my next batch of applications and even then a good few never replied although companies were better in those days at at least letting you know.

It may depend on the part of the country you are in but my son got his post man job fairly easily (they find it hard to keep people as it's quite hard work and we are int eh SE) and then his food delivery driver job - again they find it hard to keep people due to shifts, weekend work, irregular hours but there are definitely in the SE jobs like that available which are full time, with chance of overtime too and which are on full PAYE, not zero hours.

To Hundredmiles and others who use social media as a filter for recruiting purposes, you're putting your employer at massive risk under GDPR. You only need to have one escalation from a candidate who decides to take their case further with the ICO and your company would be subjected to an intense audit of your recruitment practices with eye-watering fines.

Using the excuse that it's "only a discrete search" into their online presence that influences recruitment decisions based on their Project Management role in 2006 not matching their CV won't cut the mustard with the ICO. It's a data breach pure and simple.