To want to say know but not know how

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

The last thing I want to do is rock the boat. Sometimes in situations like this I end up saying yes because I'm scared there will be a massive backlash if I don't.
Don't want to drip feed. I left Ds's dad when he was born due to the scale of escalating abuse during the pregnancy. Due to this contact is arranged through a court order. He does take things out on ds which has been referred through SS before. The most unkind words would be too kind to describe him but I try to keep things as settled as possible for ds. He drags me through the courts everytime ss get a referral for him and says it's come from me (it hasn't, it's always been school or nursery), the mental toll of dealing with it is difficult he's very much a behind closed doors abuser and it feels like no matter what he does we just have to live with it and I try to keep ds as safe as possible. I don't even know if this information is relevant at all, it may just help explain why I have to be so cautious as to how I reply to him or approach him.
Ds (nearly 5) is having a short planned procedure next week. It's a day case (more of a half day case actually) and I've had a message from him saying "I would like to come along for the day".
The problem is I don't want him there. I wouldn't be comfortable with it at all which I do realise isn't the point at all and if I thought having his dad there would help I would have him there, my feelings aren't the problem but I know he won't be comforted or relaxed the same, it's going to be a big enough thing going into hospital and having his first operation without dads behaviour in the equation too, I just want to be able to comfort him and have him calm and settled and happy.

We're taking possibly four or five hours in hospital which I want to be as calm and comfortable as possible. I don't know if I can say no to dad? Is that illegal? I don't want to make my sons first operation an argument. I want to say something like "I'm taking him in at x time and I'll call you when he's woken up so you can have a chat" but be assertive that he's not coming or if anybody has any other suggestions of how I can handle this or what I can say? He will take it as if saying no to deliberately get one over on him and block him seeing his child which is absolutely not the case and he knows it, but he will say it to give him ammo to make the next few weeks hell but I just don't want aggro at the hospital. He's very controlling and it doesn't matter how much I do for him or how many times I say yes he will push for more and more from me and even if I politely say no to one tiny thing he blows up and takes everything out on me and uses one tiny reason as the excuse.
If I'm being entirely unreasonable I've got to swallow that too I suppose. Thanks for reading!

Have the police been involved in the past? I don’t think any contact is good for either of you and that this has gone beyond politeness.
If he has been reported to SS and you split from him because of abuse, it does sound like he has committed crime against both of you.
Worrying about him making your life Hell over the next few weeks because you said no however politely means that he is still being allowed some form of control over you.
If he sends you nasty/threatening messages, report him to the cops for Malicious communications and don’t respond. If he continues, report him for harassment. Consider asking the police to get a Domestic Violence Protection Order, or a non molestation order. You (and your boy, it sounds like) are still living in fear of him and that is not your fault.

I actually dealt with a similar case through my work. Legally, it’s down to who has “parental responsibility”. Your ex would have had this automatically, along with you, but the SS involvement may mean that you now have sole PR. It will depend on that. If you have sole PR, you can legally prevent him from attending.

Bloody autocorrect. Obviously I mean "to want to say no but not know how"

Hospitals usually only want one person there per child anyway.

Could you tell him that?

Thanks guys. We've had a non molesation order in the past. The police were involved when we split but not since then which is probably my fault because when SS have been involved through school I kind of just assumed that if the police needed involvement this would happen through SS.
We both have PR and I'm doing my best at the moment to keep him safe but it's psychologically difficult because after something happens he will drag me through the courts and deny everything and say I'm making it up which isn't actually possible. We've been to court god knows how many times and nothing changes each time. I'm very reluctant to keep pushing because his solicitor said if it happens again they will change residence and claim parental alienation because despite a lot of evidence they can't absolutely prove something definitely happened at his house due to child's age and they just seem to keepbelieving dad even though he will barefaced lie about everything. None of this is the problem this week obviously but until he's old enough to speak for himself i just keep putting myself through it all for it to be exactly the same and if I push it again I need absolute proof which I'm never going to have because I'm not there. It's a very distressing situation and one that maybe mumsnet won't have the answer to. I just wish he was reasonable enough to not make such a sensitive day all about him

Speak to the hospital.. when DS had an operation, Dh brought us to the hospital but there was only one parent allowed to wait with him before he was taken through and to wait while he came round in the recovery room.

Say no. By the time he goes to court which he won't...the procedure will have happened. You can tell the hospital...and make sure you DO...that he is NOT to be admitted under ANY circumstances whatsoever and they will keep him away.

He hasn't proved himself a good person at all. You're right to keep him away.

If the op is on Wednesday (for example) could you tell him it’s on Thursday? Oops sorry I got confused in all the worry and stress...

Bringmewine he does know it's Wednesday already. In 8 days though this will end up in a big argument when I just want him to put ds first and respect what's best for him

Ok....does he know the time off the op? Could you at least get him to not turn up until later in the afternoon?

This day is about your DS and not your ex.

Do whatever you need to do to make sure that he is as calm and relaxed as he can be. If that means not seeing Dad, then that's your answer.

Tell him No, but you will let him know during the day that all is OK and he can talk on the phone after the procedure.

"you're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont"

I think you need to start standing up for yourself and your son - like you said, if you disagree on the tinesty thing - all hell breaks loose - and he doesn't appreciate you keeping the calm.

So my question to you - "why are you trying to keep it calm when he'll still kick off anyway?"

Say no to the BIG things,say no to the small things, say no to everything inbetween - you know what to expect from him, he's not changing - let it be YOU who changes the dynamics.

So what if he threatens court/takes you to court - you've been there before with him. Let his solicitor crack on with whatever he wants to, like you said, it's been documented by nursery/school - they are independent to you.

My friend was like this with her abusive ex, for over 10yrs he still had a say in how she did things and pussy footed around him to keep him happy. He only starting backing off when she got stronger in telling him what was going to happen moving forward rather than asking for permission. He's a bully and as a bully, he pry's on the weak. Dont be that x

Also, operations get cancelled all the time, let him know the day before that unforatunally it's been cancelled and a new date will be issued.

Then the day after op (or once he's had the op) ring him and say you got a call in the early morning to bring your DS down and with all the rush etc you've only just manage to ring him now.

What's he going to do after the event you can deal with, and you'll son will have had a calm day x

I'm very reluctant to keep pushing because his solicitor said if it happens again they will change residence and claim parental alienation because despite a lot of evidence they can't absolutely prove something definitely happened at his house due to child's age and they just seem to keep believing dad even though he will barefaced lie about everything.

Disclosure/privacy laws or not, I'd send my kid with a recording/filming device to be able prove once and for all what he does and put a stop to the access.

Couldn't you do something like that?

does the smiling assassin approach ever work on him.so he still in his own hideous mind thinks he has control.you smile but tell him all nicey nicey that the hospital only want one parent there.but of course youll phone him and keep him updated then how bout he come for visit and so and so a time.
or id speak to hospital.they might have some delicate advice on this.if you find a nice nurse or doc they will be very understanding and many have seen all sorts of situations before like urs so will know what to do.
do you have ss worker.could they help.or someone in similar sectr.
remember this is still bout ur dc but also bout you.youve got to be cool and calm in urself.and protected.what he doe and doing is wrong.but don't let him win by griding you down with his exhausting approach to things.
your still free of him.you still left you still took control and walked away.you still are away.remember that.that is so much strength in you and so much power you have.you are your little one are an army of two.you cant be broken by him because you've obviousy got so much love in you it will build the wall you need.
think of ways if he does end up coming that you can cope.breathing techniques.could you have a word with your dc.let him know you want whats best for him.will keep him safe.in a way though sometimes mummy has to do things she doesn't want to.
is he hurting you dc.i don't no whether im misinterparating what you've said.but this massively worries me and if so then this needs to be taken further.to protect your dc.
if someone who is hurting you dc is conatatnly being let back into his life by his mum.it cant end will.not for him or you or trust or relaltions ongoing.
sorry not sure what to suggest.it seems so delicate and from what you've sai I don't no how telling him no would go.would he then not go.and then will you have the strength to put up with the repocusions.but then maybe you have to to protect your dc.i don't know!very hard.sorry I dnot have the asnwr.im sure others will know better

lookatmenow brilliant idea.

Thank you for the replies guys I'm going to try and speak to him today I just hope it doesn't go sideways. I can't say it's on a different day or time because he will call and check and he accuses me of all kinds anyway If I lied about something he would make things so much worse he would just use it to manipulate people into believing I did all kinds of other things. It's hard enough getting people to believe me as it is. It's hard but thank you so much for the support and I'll have a chat to him tonight and see where it goes from there

So sorry you're going through all this. I'm relieved you're not considering lying about the date/time of the op; any proof of your lying to him will almost certainly be used against you.

The safest route would definitely be to tell him that the hospital only allow one parent to wait, but that you'll call him when your son wakes up, and you'll let him know visiting hours. Can you also talk to someone at the hospital - whoever's in charge of the wards you're one before and after the op and let them know that you don't feel safe with him there, both to give them a heads up if he does arrive, and to not have to try to explain anything in front of him.