This Morning - Kids having ears pierced is child abuse ?

[daffodillament]

What utter nonsense. Just tuned in as heard them mention this subject stemmed from Mumsnet ! Now the woman is saying Kids ear piercing is basicly the same as FGM !! I mean WTF ? Get a grip. No it not !

Why would I plait my child's long hair when he cries and says it hurts? Because he's attatched to his hair type and wants it long but because of the type of hair he has I can't do it every morning and neither will I shave it off and make him feel ashamed for the hair he has. If he was a girl I wouldn't make him go round virtually bald - I'd plait it.

I pull it tight, he cries. It lasts a few weeks before repeat.

Millions of other children who are mixed or black will go through this. Are we abusing our children?

Tbh if I did it every day it would cause far more pain than tight enough to last a few weeks. But it is entirely to make him look "nice" rather than have his hair a complete mess.

I don't think it's the same as piercing ears but the "why would you do it just to look nice?" makes me think of that... what millions of children go through with their hair. Of course not everyone has a sensitive scalp but in ethnic hair salons I've heard tons of tears

I don't care if people pierce older children's ears, but doing it to babies and toddlers is just cruel. Someone should sneak up behind the parents and punch holes in their ears without warning - see how they like it!

@iron....youve amused me thoroughly like your style

@planningpartyfreak
What are you talking about plaiting hair?
That's not piercing holes or injuring skin, it's a hairstyle.

@evangeline I dunno. I remember when my mum used to do my hair.....she used pull it so tight I could barely see out of my eyes instant facelift

I pull it tight, he cries. It lasts a few weeks before repeat.

I think this is a completely separate issue tbh, but since you brought it up!

1,Your DC's natural hair doesn't look a mess
2, plenty of people plait without making their child cry in pain.
3, If it was a choice between crying in pain and a haircut, I'd choose hair cut.

I once knew a little whose hair fell out because it had been pulled so tightly, it eventually grew back and her mother put the weave back in as soon as it was long enough. I definitely judged.

@Evangeline3 yes just comparing inflicting pain to look pretty.

It bloody hurts my son. I feel awful. But the other options are - cut it short because of hair type or have him look a mess. I do have the option to cut short, boys have short hair often. I choose not to because I wouldn't force a girl to have her hair virtually bald purely for having Afro hair.

@BlueBalletDress the people who's children don't cry when hair is plaited most likely have white kids tbh or they've got tougher scalps. I mean cane rows/singles type plaits

And it certainly does look a mess if we didn't do it and left it a week... it's past his shoulders if pulled straight and would matt! And be far worse to untangle that!

@planningpartyfreak it's not comparable.

I know what you meant planning and can guarantee that no, not all parents make their children cry in pain when doing their hair.

It bloody hurts my son. I feel awful. But the other options are - cut it short because of hair type or have him look a mess. I do have the option to cut short, boys have short hair often. I choose not to because I wouldn't force a girl to have her hair virtually bald purely for having Afro hair

Or you could find someone who could plait without pulling so tight he cries? There's no need for that.

@IronMansIronButt I've tried for years to find one...

I remember being about 9/10 and seeing a baby having their ears pierced in Claire’s. It was horrific. The baby was screaming and was red and the mum was going ‘am I being a horrid mummy’. My friend and I just looked at her and said yes which was very outspoken for us as we were both very shy. She still did the other ear though. Ever since then I’ve always been a bit judgey about it. There is zero benefit to a baby and there is no doubt that child was in pain. Lots of people find taking their baby for vaccinations hard despite them being life saving and important. My first instinct was to try and get my baby away from the nurse (obviously I didn’t) but something primal came over me where I had the strong urge to protect my daughter from harm. I can’t imagine putting a small child through pain for something unnecessary.

@user..... this ^
Your bang on. The thought of my children in pain makes me feel physically sick. Let alone pinning them down whilst forcing a needle through their perfect little ears

I find this thread interesting. Got my daughter's ears pierced at 10 months. Am of South Asian descent so this is common and practically all small girls have their ears pierced (but I do agree that culture is not an excuse for cruelty to children). In hindsight maybe not my best parenting decision but to be honest, I would probably do it again. Pierced them because thought it would be better for her to have them pierced at 10 months (when the pain would be fleeting and she would never remember it) rather than later on as a teenager, when she is far more likely to remember the pain. As it was, she did not cry at all. And ears never got infected. Though I appreciate everyone's experience is different. We got them done abroad and the doctor put something on the ears, which I assumed numbed them. However I do think there is a cultural element to this. For instance in South Asian culture, letting children cry to sleep without comforting them is regarded as very cruel and neglectful/ maybe what would be termed "mentally abusive", though is relatively OK here as it forms part of sleep training. Also surely we make lots of decisions on behalf of children that they may not be OK with. Eg. sharing photos of them on Facebook without their permission, when they may grow up to be private and not want to use social media at all. I also agree brushing girls' long hair on a daily basis may inflict more systematic pain than piercing ears ... my daughter is far more likely to remember that as being painful than the memory of piercing ears at 10 months. If my daughter does not want to wear ear-studs, she does not have to. I have my ears pierced but often go around without ear studs or ear rings. Surely no one notices holes in the ears. I really don't think it's anything like FGM which is extremely painful and has long lasting effects on health. I know lots of people with pierced ears but don't know anyone who has ever suffered any long lasting ill effects from them. However I am prepared to be enlightened on this matter.

I expect one day it will end up being considered abusive.

And I could understand why someone who was more aware of FGM type IV may compare the two issues

awatched I got my ears pierced at 16 years old, and after about 6 months I got a bit of inflamation in one of the holes. 3 weeks later I was in intensive care with endocarditis, a bacterial infection of my heart that was cased by the skin infection around my piercing getting into my blood stream.

It took me 6 weeks to get out of hospital and believe it or not that made me lucky, because the infection responded really well to the first antibiotics they tried.

That was 23 years ago now, and I still have a regurgitating valve in my heart due to the destruction caused by the infection. In spite of the fact I haven't worn ear rings since being hospitalised, I still have obvious holes in my ear lobes and they still flair up every once in while, just to scare the crap out of me.

Was I unlucky? yes, very. Am I glad that all happened to me while I was a fit strong teenager rather than a baby...well obviously yes, as I would very likely have died.

Making decisions for your baby around health is one thing. Making assumptions about what they will find aesthetically pleasing is quite another.

I would beg you to reconsider if you have have to decide again. I can't imagine how my mother felt having supported the decision that nearly cost me my life, and she did that when I was of an age to be legally responsible. If it had happened when I was baby, and because of her decision not mine, I don't think she could have lived with it.

I think it's abusive to pierce a small child's ears. Imagine someone sticking a needle into a child for no reason. I think most people would agree that is an assault and should lead to serious consequences. Why does the fact that it looks nice make it ok with piercings? If it is ok to pierce ears, would it be ok to pierce eyebrows, belly button? I'm guessing most would say no, but it's no different.

I know it's common but it's not something I would do. Where do you draw the line at what is and isn't right... Ear piercings, nose piercing, eyebrow piercing etc.

I’m not sure that I understand the logic that it is better to have ears pierced as babies rather than later on. Surely the pain will be the same? Ah, but of course... babies can’t really say no or take you to task, can they?

Quite often you can tell when someone had their ear pierced as a baby as the hole is in the wrong place - really close to the edge of the love for example. Because only a baby's earlobe is tiny and when it grows and stretches out who knows where the hole will end up!

I hate seeing earrings on littleuns. It's purely for their parents benefit

i am from south east asia and culture or not - i would never have my daughters ears pierced. Sorry, but as an adult and the childs mother, you get to make that decision and i would never choose to inflict pain on my baby - for fear of being judged by my culture. My grandmother would never expect me to pierce my daughters ears either - she did it to hers, but my child is mine, not hers. I make the decisions when shes so little.

I think its cruel, i think its mean, and i think there should be an age where it is illegal to do so. Morally - how can anyone say, yes, lets inflict pain onto my child, because, you know, it looks pretty and its best done when they are little and they wont remember it - how do you know what they remember?

*Today 09:00 woollyheart

I’m not sure that I understand the logic that it is better to have ears pierced as babies rather than later on. Surely the pain will be the same? Ah, but of course... babies can’t really say no or take you to task, can they?*

This 100%. Of course it hurts them. They just aren't aware beforehand that it's going to happen so can't get worked up about it the same as an older child.

Of course it still hurts them the same. They just didn't get the chance to consent to that pain and that body modification.

FGM was probably used to get people talking about it and it worked!