If laser hair removal is available on NHS for transgender, it should also be available for women?

[Sowhatifisaycunt]

I have a problem with facial hair and have had for years. For a long time I tweezed but this became untenable as the volume of hair increased. I now shave my face every morning and on those rare occasions when I go somewhere in the evenings, I need to shave again.

Obviously, DH is aware of my problem but such is my embarrassment it is a completely taboo topic. My professional and social life is also affected as I’m always cautious when talking to others in case they notice breakthrough hairs, pitting from years of tweezing and shaving, or a general 5 o’clock shadow. I fucking hate it!

I tried electrolysis years ago to no avail. I asked a gp about laser treatment about 10 years ago but was told it wasn’t available (Wales). She did prescribe vaniqua cream but my skin became so dry and sore I stopped using it.

A couple of years ago I bought a groupon voucher for laser hair removal but I couldn’t afford to continue the sessions after those covered by the groupon ran out. I simply can’t afford laser treatment.

However, I understand that M2F transgender folk are able to get NHS laser treatment. Is this actually true? If it is it is mightily unfair that a biological male gets access to a treatment to feminise them that isn’t available for women.

I don’t know what I want from this thread. On one hand it feels like a dirty confession but if anyone has any knowledge or experiences that may help I’d be very grateful.

Sorry it was so long. I am a long time lurker and occasional poster and I namechanged for this.

Joffrey so why can’t these trans women just shave like born women?

DD suffers with hirsutism, she has been offered laser treatment on the NHS having exhausted other routes.

No, actually, I believe I do get the point. I had to stop working with transgender individuals because, among other things, I struggled so much with what felt to me like all the funded 'help' (including my dubious services) they got negotiating 'femininity', that women have to work out and pay for for themselves over years and years and fucking years of slow iron maiden pressure of capitalism and sexism on our bodies and minds (I acknowledge totally that it's not going to feel like that from another person's perspective and sex dysphoria sounds horrific.)

BUT saying that women should get the most expensive types of facial hair removal on the NHS is to me trying to institutionalise gender stereotypes of the most pernicious sort. Women, particularly non-fertile or sub-fertile women, have facial hair. Women are ostracised and bullied and shamed for having facial hair and taught to deal with it in silence - tbh more silence than sits around menstruation - there are quite a lot of people who I believe don't know that women have hair on their faces at all, though they will know that women bleed. Women are taught from an early age by society and the media that the most convenient and cheapest method of removing it, if they want to, is male-specific in technique, sound and feel, and will actually pretty much turn them into men (although the same method applied to their legs is apparently OK, though increasingly denigrated compared to waxing or laser which offer a much more significant markup). To have people with sex dysphoria and uncomfortable feelings about facial hair based on, in my opinion, their mental state, the limits of patriarchal masculinity and gender stereotypes, get funded hair removal is a pissing insult, I agree, but it doesn't make it an NHS need to have these funded for ANYONE.

YANBU . It’s one thing to understand NHS rationing treatments that couldn’t be argued are cosmetic , but how are they “less so” in the case of people with Y chromosomes .
I’m totally with you on how effing unfair that is .
Anyway , lots of folk have mentioned the Philips device , and no doubt the NoNo as well . Hope you find something that works .
Good luck XXX

@JoffreyBaratheon

Ok so they are women. So women who have high testosterone causing hairyness because they were born with bollocks can get it removed.

Women who have high testosterone causing hairyness because they have PCOS can't get it removed.

Do You Understand how this might be annoying?

@annandale I’m not saying women should get it; I’m saying transitioning men shouldn’t get it over women.

@JoffreyBaratheon I do beg your pardon. I meant transitioning women as opposed to non-transitioning women.

Y’know, male humans.

Joffrey, I will ask again, if I am a woman, and a trans woman is a woman, if we really are equal, if we both have extreme facial hair leading to stigmatisation by society and feelings of distress and depression, why is she entitled to treatment but I'm not? why is she actually more equal than I am?

Excellent question Holding.

Holding that’s exactly my thinking too.

I have worked in this field and thought I could provide a little bit more information if it is useful.

Pre-op surgical sites are treated and IPL is the most effective means

Prior to IPL patients were subject to repeated electrolysis treatments. Imagine the pain. And lengthy and expensive treatment. IPL is cheaper to provide the same service.

As I've said before high YANBU and some provision must also be given to PCOS sufferers. Indeed I asked the same question of the professionals involved in the service.

I’m surprised at IPL being used para when you have it privately (as I have) they’re very clear is not permanent. I have milk white skin and dark hair so it was v successful with me but in line with the warnings it wasn’t totally permanent but what’s grown back is a lot less. I would have thought regrowth following surgery (so skin in different places) would be very difficult.

Hi all - I understand coming here can be a tense place for a transwoman; for the record I see myself as female/a woman - trans is just the journey to get there 100% physically. I am not male, I am not a guy or a bloke. anyone who knows me will say I am not. And I am not anti female or born female (Lucky you! :) ) or anything. I'm just me.

I just saw this thread on a google search.

And for the record I think it's mad that women cannot be offered laser hair removal on the NHS. It's not cosmetic if it has a proven impact on that womans life in society. As someone with facial hair I know how awful it is to face people when the slight shadow starts to come through; or having just nicked myself knowing it'll take a while to stop bleeding and I have makeup to put on. Or to shave every single day hard until there is no stubble and again at night if I want to go out.

My desire to have my facial hair removed so I fit in among my other female peers and don't get stares is really strong, but doesn't detract from the fact that I think any woman should get this on the NHS. The NHS is there to help, cure, improve lives and this is just one aspect. I'm not anyone special; I just want to avoid any stares or looks.

So as a woman lost and born accidentally into roughly a male body and I'm trying to my hardest to get back to where I belong; please have sympathy and understand I know how having facial hair feels and that EVERYONE should get it removed if it detracts from their life.

claire

I think it should be available for all women (including trans women) whose bodily hair causes them distress, discomfort or anxiety.

Brilliant and simple! X

This is an old thread, so forgive me. But, yes, trans people are eligible for 6 sessions of electrolysis. People with PCOS (which includes me) aren't. It's discrimination based on a protected characteristic, which is illegal under the Equality Act 2020.

How much were you paying for laser? I pay £40 for the neck / underside of chin area and have an appt every 6 weeks ish (so that works out at £6 per week which I think is pretty reasonable and manageable). I've had 4 sessions so far and most of the hair is completely gone, just one stubborn patch that needs a few more sessions I think.

I think you can get referrals from dermatology to have reduced cost laser with PCOS.

Sorry - it's 8 sessions, not 6:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/service-specification-gender-dysphoria-services-non-surgical-oct-2022.pdf

There's no funding for PCOS:

https://www.uhcw.nhs.uk/download/clientfiles/files/Patient%20Information%20Leaflets/Medicine/Diabetes%20_%20Endocrinology/Polycystic%20Ovary%20Syndrome%20(PCOS).pdf

No - my electrolygist does electrolysis on the faces of trans women, funded by the NHS.

You should look to see if LaserClinicsUK have any clinics near you, they are very affordable. I paid around £20 a month (there are often sales on) for mine and it's completely changed my life.

Gah - I meant Equality Act 2010.

I am minded to complain to NHS England about the inequality. Also about Vaniqa, if the same is true. My prescription for the same ceased around 10 years ago, due to an NHS funding decision.