Some men aren't happy with gender neutral spaces. AIBU in thinking they should just suck it up

[Springnowplease]

From The Times - can't copy the full article because of the paywall.

"A term after an Oxford college introduced gender-neutral lavatories, male students have carried out a “dirty protest” over losing their urinals.

Last week they urinated on the floor of the “gender-neutral” cubicles in the bar at Somerville College, Oxford, and wrote on the wall: “We want our f urinals back”, according to an email sent by the president of the junior common room, Niall Macklin. In a message entitled “I can’t believe I am writing this”, Macklin said: “[Last night] someone took it upon themselves to urinate on the floor of one of the cubicles and inscribe ‘We want our f urinals back’. If you have a problem with the changes please use the democratic process and not dirty protests."

It seems more logical to me that men's toilets should be made gender neutral than women's.

It’s ok, you’ve taken my comment how it wasn’t intended. A cleaners job is to technically (in a bathroom) clean up piss, that may be by an accident or deliberate etc in this case obviously deliberate. Given the reasons and the bigger picture I’m ok with it. I won’t engage anymore because you clearly dislike my comment and we won’t agree so what’s the point?

You believe the end justifies the means , that’s fine, I’ll agree to disagree.

Most men didn't ask for gender neutral spaces either, not sure why we should have to suck it up any more than women.

@QuackPorridgeBacon

Female socialisation was standing in really long queues while there was none at the men's and not even thinking anything of it.

There don't need to be long queues for the ladies - although I sympathise with old buildings with limited space, in newer buildings there is really no excuse for not providing adequate facilities for women.

Everyone accepting that it is women's lot to queue for centuries whenever they need the toilet in loads of places is simply such entrenched inequality that hardly anyone even notices it.

Toilet facilities are of course a feminist issue historically and globally. The removal of lots of public toilets in the UK for example has impacted some groups more than others - older men need to urinate more - but I'd have thought the most impacted are older women (more of them and issues are very common), pregnant women and those looking after children (usually women).

Women are as ever expected to suck this up, the result is of course accessibility for the outside world to those who are not "default" (average height and weight, non encumbered, non disabled men). Everyone else just gets on with it as best they can or opts out.

history london

SardineReturns Ahh I see. My apologies for taking your comment wrong. I agree if longer queues then obviously more toilets would be necessary.

I am quite happy with gender neutral toilets in small cafes and shops etc. It means that you don’t have to wait for ever for the one toilet allocated for your use. Especially if it doubles up as the only nappy changing space, and is the one most likely to be used by whole families of young children.

Most men also get sick of queues outside woman’s toilets. They also have to wait there while their partner/child/friend queues.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that urinals should be a gender neutral space.

Urinals don't leave anything to the imagination whereas cubicles are perfectly private to all but the most paranoid feminists.

Cubicles and urinals seem to me to be the most sensible split of bathrooms.

Last week I was passing through Bangkok where my male business partner told me about a woman mopping around his feet while he peed into a urinal. He was surprised but no one else cared.

I guess this trans-fear really is a first world problem.

Wow, a college were men were expected to compromise too, that's a welcome change from the colleges that now have "Men's" toilets and "Everyone Else" toilets. But the men will probably get their loos back, and the women won't. That's how I see it going...

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that urinals should be a gender neutral space.

Why not? Many - if not the vast majority - of transwomen have penises. Some transmen have penises.

@BrendasUmbrella

Urinals are very public. Cubicles, as I said, are seen as private to all but the most paranoid feminists.

If you struggle to see the difference between the two then there's not much I can do to explain it.

A lot of women are really fucking annoying in public toilets and think it’s a place for socialising. In the main shopping centre where I live they installed separate mirrors for people to do their hair and make up because some women hog them for ages doing that . You also get women stood around the sinks gassing for hours. I think that and also having to change sanitary products is why it takes women longer in the toilet. I have been so desperate on nights out before I’ve resorted to using the men’s because the queues for the women’s were so long.

I have used a gender neutral toilet once in a hippy restaurant where I live. It didn’t really bother me. I always thought urinals were a strange concept anyway, why does anyone want to pee in front of various strangers? It’s odd.

I too find that women's queues being longer isn't so much to do with lack of facilities but WOMEN TAKING FOREVER!!!! when I am waiting in a loo with 10 cubicles, I want to tear my hair out with how long it takes women to wee. It's ridiculous. Some/most of them are in there for absolutely ages and it is beyond annoying - I have never understood wtf takes so long. I agree with PP who said that it's crazy having 0.1% of the population dictate so much change, because everyone is afraid of being called transphobic.

At least Somerville seem to have made all of the toilets 'gender-neutral' rather than just the women's. I went to a local theatre yesterday and they had gone all 'progressive' by turning the women's toilets into 'gender neutral' toilets and keeping the men's toilets as men-only. So the men get the choice of whether they want to share with women or not, while the women don't have a choice, and the men now have twice as many toilets available to them whereas the women have to share their toilets with anyone and everyone. Because we all know there is just way too much toilet provision for women and we shouldn't go around hogging it all to ourselves...

I wish that was just one venue but, unfortunately, that seems to be becoming more and more the norm, all in the name of 'progress' and 'equality' (but not for women, obviously).

fucking equality.

equality would be not queueing for the loo and having no option to not share.

I think men should have just as much right to single sex spaces as women and I'm glad they are protesting

Yup, agree with this.

Though..the style of the protest makes me feel a bit ill.

I don’t think anyone should have to suck up sex segregated toilets being removed if they are unhappy with it, but that’s a disgusting way to go about it and they should be made to clean that up.

There are multiple reasons why women have to queue- not enough provision in the first place, it takes longer to take off coats and bags and undo jeans and sit down and then do the whole thing in reverse than it does to simply undo a zip, and also women are often the parent who ends up taking children to the loo as well. Plus now anyone who wants to use a gender neutral loo will also be in there.

You know how women in a loo queue will generally let an adult with small children in front of them, because so many of us remember how toddlers give you a nanosecond's notice that they need a wee - how likely is that to happen when people other than women are in the women's toilets?