To think no-one can censor my right to express my belief?

[MrsWooster]

I have stolen this from twitter and tweaked it.

I am an atheist: my belief is that no deity exists.
Despite it being offensive to them,
I am not forced by religious people to believe in any gods

I am an atransgenderist : my belief is that no-one can ever change their sex.

Despite it being it being offensive to some, I cannot be forced to believe anyone can change their sex.

I cannot see a difference between these two statements - a religious person may define themself entirely in terms of their religion as a trans person identifies themselves wholly in terms of their gender id yet the first will be permitted and the second not.
#mumsnettransphobia is an attack on free speech.

@maxthemartian but it is controversial to say gender is a social construct not an identity because that isn't an agreed factual position. We're still figuring out what the 'facts' are, or if this is even something that can be factually determined.

Also - transgender people don't change sex. Sex is biological. Gender isn't. Transgendered people are born with biology which doesn't 'match' their gender.

Hideandgo

Do you "need" to deny others beliefs or do you choose to?

We can't censor it, no. We can beg you to stop boring us with it.

one is opinion only, and one is fact - people can change sex

crawl back to the 1950's

No one else can censor you but sometimes it is a good idea to censor yourself.
Think of others before yourself is a good way to live.

lubey you think people can change sex?

Of course gender is a sodding social construct! There is absolutely no measurable yardstick for gender and how it is expressed has varied enormously across time and cultures.
I think a lot of what we're seeing at the moment is social contagion.

lubeybooby
one is opinion only, and one is fact - people can change sex

Did someone find a way to manipulate chromosomes whilst I wasn't looking?

Now gender?

It doesn't cause me any harm if another person believes in god.

Try telling that to the millions of peoole killed I'm the name of religion.

My point was that some people are wholly defined by their belief that a god exists and have the right to be offended if I vocally oppose their belief. So they say "I am a person formed in the image of god". I wholly believe in the existence of (insert religion here) people but I still say nope, sorry, you're a product of evolution. Rotten for them but I'm allowed to do it. I wholly believe in the existence of transgender people, in various definitions of transsexual, transgender etc and when some of them say "I am an actual woman (or man) I am NOT allowed to say nope, you are someone who is gebwtically on thing and identifies as / with the other.
Religious belief is a protected in law as is the right to disagree, hate speech- can't think of any offhand- is correctly illegal but simply stating that I believe their fundamental belief is wrong is not hate speech.
So my aibu is why can I say one not the other- I'm not transphobic, I don't hate or deny the existence of trans people but I don't believe (some of) what they say.
There's no point repeating "you're a transphobe' when the whole point of the thread is to assert and enquire as to WHY the statement of belief is transphobic. In the great aibu tradition, if I'm going to get my arse handed to me, I expect reasons- mumsnet is better than a kneejerk reaction of "because you're mean / wrong"

Ok, there may be the odd spelling error- can't find my glaasses...

I am NOT allowed to say nope, you are someone who is gebwtically on thing and identifies as / with the other.

Not allowed to say in what context? Are you suggesting it would be a crime to say that?

I think the key point here is that some people are wholly defined by their belief that a god exists is pretty much wrong. Religious belief is incredibly important to some people, and to priests etc it's entirely central to their life, but unless someone thinks they're actually Jesus reincarnated, nobody is actually defined by their belief. They exist, as a person, separately from their religion. But if someone believes they're a woman, that literally is part of what defines them, from their own perspective - so telling them they're not is effectively rejecting them, not just rejecting their belief.

I think that's why it's perceived as worse - though, like you, I don't buy it :)

You can believe whatever thing you want, but you can absolutely be censored by private companies for expressing that belief on their platform. There is no right to freedom of speech on a privately-owned website.

You can believe whatever you like. No-one can stop you. Just don't tell me my beliefs are wrong. My beliefs are as valid to me as yours are to you.

But whatever you believe, you can only ACT in accordance with the law.

Buzz summed it up in the second reply of the thread. You can think what you like, you can't say what you like if it depicts any element of 'hate speech'. Perhaps it's because what you're suggesting is implied rather than explicit?

In my opinion, an example of implied hate speech would be somebody wearing a hat with a swastika badge on it, in the normal carrying out of their duties. Hugely offensive, clearly demonstrating support for that faction and at the same time, contempt for those who would be offended. All implied.

This was a real event; member of staff was told to cease and desist or be removed from employment. Member of staff argued that it was his right to 'free speech'. Unfortunately for him, that doesn't translate to what you do and say on the company's dime. Why on earth you'd want to be so crass at any time is the question.

Is this yet another transgender thread? Confusing as you refer to religion in your example. Why sweep up great swathes of people in that sector just because you're annoyed with what some people within it are saying? Why would you not just focus on the protection of rights for women and leave it at that?

Irrespective of that, I don't know why people feel the need to blurt out their thoughts all the time, particularly when those thoughts are liable to be offensive when vocalised. People talk too much, I think.

Do you want your 'arse handed' to you? How odd.

Or how about this

To be forced to say or believe something you know to be untrue, that’s the facts and scientific evidence believe is also untrue is called brain washing.

I don’t see how the two can be conflated.

One denies the existence of an invisible being and generally doesn’t offend those who do believe.

One denies an actual human being the ability to be themselves.

Not at all, Mousefunky.

I don't believe that someone born a man can become or is a woman. However, I believe that they have the right to dress as they want, work in whatever role they want unless said role is specified for women only, and in general live their lives in peace and safety.

How is me not believing that they are actually a woman in any way stopping them from doing that?

You're not wrong. You have the right to say what you want. You just don't have the right to use any specific medium not owned by you to say it.

But you can say that stuff OP. You won't be imprisoned for it. But you may be argued with or criticised for it.

It sounds like you're asking to be allowed to say what you like, without anybody else being able to express their disagreement with or disapproval of you views...