When does "it's just a joke" become actually offensive? Sexual comments

[Pickingrandomname]

Just need some opinions really. Bearing in mind drinking was involved, if that changes anything. I'm not looking for "you shouldn't socialise with colleagues", trust me, I don't plan to again (though this was a work function not free time socialising), but wondering how far I should go in terms of avoidance now, or whether I'm just being silly.

Probably known this person a few years now, (they are basically one of my bosses) known to be a bit raucous when under the influence. They were attending with their so, I was not, but he was around for some of the night separately. They were not bothered their so was two seats away - they can also be quite raucous.

Invited me to sit on his knee, multiple times, which I declined each time. Commenting that if my so wasn't around there was a hotel nearby. Saying he would come to my office "we'll have a coffee, nothing else" *wink. Putting his arm around me and pretending to nuzzle my head. I just sort of froze and grimaced in all honesty. He did that a couple of times, I think once saying he only did it to be funny because my so might see and think something of it. Some other very much more vulgar comments I can't even bear to type actually... mostly ending with "just joking".

We weren't alone or in the dark, this was a well lit place where we were all sat along a table. I spent a fair bit of time outside to avoid him to be honest. I didn't tell my so at the time because I knew his reaction would probably be to knock the guy out, and maybe that would've actually been the best thing - he most likely still would if I told him now. But I didn't want to cause a scene??

There is no HR, can't explain why or how the job works as it would be too outing, but there isn't. I think I know this was too much, it certainly wasn't wanted or asked for, but I feel like some other people will think I'm being over the top about it, but it made me very uncomfortable, even in a tipsy state I did not find it funny. I would certainly not want to be alone with him.

So if I make it a big deal, and he says it was all in jest, where does that line get drawn that says no that's not a joke, that's not ok?

Making sexual suggestions even in fun is sexual harassment. Putting his arm round you and nuzzling your head is sexual harassment, bordering on assault, more serious as it involves physical contact. The fact that he is your boss, and therefore power relations are at play make it worse. He is exploiting his position. It is outrageous behaviour. It is not funny, not good humoured and behaviour like this cannot be excused as a joke. Is there anyone you can complain to? Another boss in the company? Otherwise, all I can say is that you need to make a written record of this now. Tell your boss that you were made extremely uncomfortable by his behaviour, and you trust it will never happen again. If it does, you can leave, claim constructive dismissal and take legal action. That’s why you need a paper trail now.

It over steps boundaries when YOU find the behaviour intimidating/offensive/derogatory. Those boundaries are personal to you. Everyone has different boundaries. What you find offensive, I may not and vice versa. And again, what you tolerate from one person you would not tolerate from another. Each situation is individual.

'outing ' FFS

He sounds repulsive. I would have been really offended with that behaviour

It was a work event so it was at work, and all of it was sexual harassment. You are within your rights to go to HR and make a complaint.

I just noticed there's no HR; go to ACAS and your boss or his boss.

Who is SO

I hate this excuse men (mostly) seem to use to be rude or offensive, by saying it's a joke or banter. Jokes are meant to make you laugh, if someone took offence at a joke I made, I wouldn't try to tell them they were wrong, I'd apologise because I'm trying to make them laugh, not upset them.

If you ever find yourself in this situation again, could you tell him to keep his hands to himself? Lots of eye rolling and calling him Harvey maybe? And if he takes offence, of course point out that your joking. Or, if you don't feel you can say anything, just walk away?

When the person on the receiving end feels uncomfortable, irrespective of the views of the other person/people involved. The behaviour you describe here was crass & completely inappropriate within a work situation. Can you take this to HR or his line manager.

It wasn't ok. It was totally unacceptable....but whst would you like to do about it?

Because when any grievance is lodged...I ask what outcome the person wants.

You may want him spoken to and never for it to happen again and an apology.

You may want a full investigation and subsequent disciplinary action.

It's sexual harassment without a doubt. You can make a formal complaint to his manager.

Think about whether he's going to admit it. Any witnesses? Has he had similar complaints to your knowledge?

I'm not sure I'd want to continue working with him.

I know if this happened to my DD I'd be furious.

Urgh, that sounds like a gross experience.
He should be very, very ashamed of himself. Did other people see any or all of this?

Nellieellie I do like the idea of a written record, thank you. I can talk to another boss, they heard some of it anyway.

lynmilne65 yes, outing. What's outrageous about that? That it's ridiculous to think that stating the specific and unusual way my company works could possibly be outing, or that I'd like to have some ideas on how to handle it before anyone I know irl works out it's me?

Lifebeginsatgin I meant significant other. I thought SO was used for that here?

SandyY2k I don't really want to work with him anymore tbh. What I would like from it is for him to be removed from his position so I don't have to. This would be doable but awkward. He's never done this before, either that I've been witness to or informed about bit it does fit with his character.

applesisapples5 there were around 4 witnesses altogether on and off. One of them was also subject to that behaviour to a much lesser extent.

His involvement in the job is my responsibility so I think for my sake and my other colleague's I'll have to go about asking for his replacement and document it properly.

Thank you for the replies

Boss or no boss I would have said sharply to him loudly in front of everyone "Can you stop, you're embarrassing yourself and me." Then said to one of the men can you swap seats with me, please. Nip it in the bud straight away is the best thing. If his girlfriend was 2 seats away you could have swapped with her surely?

Be strong. It starts being offensive when you find it offensive and he doesn't stop.

To be honest, men are not stupid. Many of us think we just need to say "no" louder but men are not socially inept idiots who cannot sense that a woman is feeling uncomfortable.

The first time he made a tentative sexual innuendo and you didn't respond positively then he will have most definitely sensed this. He continued, knowing that you were uncomfortable, because he wanted to. Perhaps he liked seeing your discomfort.

He's also relying on your embarrassment and doubts of "oh maybe I just need to learn to take a joke" that he manipulated you into feeling. So that he gets to do again.

If people have to say "it's a joke", it's not funny.

I just sort of froze and grimaced in all honesty.

Freezing when you feel traumatised is a really common reaction. It makes it impossible to tell them to stop it, or to get up and walk away; and afterwards it can make you feel complicit in the abuse, even though you hated it.

Please try not to let anyone tell you that you took part in this horrible behaviour, therefore are as guilty as he was. You didn't take part and he's an unpleasant, abusive man.

Do complain to someone. Don't let him get away with this.