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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask whether telling pupils a level 6 at GCSE is not good enough is a good way to motivate pupils.

39 replies

letstalk2000 · 25/04/2018 13:42

Apparently DD2 year 10 have been told across the board that achieving anything less than a 7 isn't good enough and failure at that subject as far as her school is concerned . Also if a pupil gets less than 70% in a test they are given a 'detention' though not called one.

This is because the school requires a least a 7 to study any subject at A level. That being the be all and end all.

It is a grammar school but nonetheless degrading the potential attainment of grades is not the right way of motivating pupils.

OP posts:
TeenTimesTwo · 25/04/2018 13:45

YANBU.
But I'm not surprised given it is a grammar school.
So grateful I live in an all comp system.

teenagerparent · 25/04/2018 13:48

I went to a Grammar School ( many years ago ) and we were always told to aim for at least Bs, that would be a level 6 this year I believe.
Grammars Schools are always going to make them aim high but no its not the best way to motivate them at all.

RolyRocks · 25/04/2018 13:50

In a Grammar school, most of the pupils will have target grades of a 7-9, with a few at a 6. Very rarely will it be below that.

It comes across in your post that you think some of those students should settle for less than they are capable of. How would you ensure they reach their potential, if not asking them to come back and re-do a test or attend a booster session (which is what the 'detention' would be)?

I also assume that when you wanted your DD to attend the Grammar school, you did so because of the fantastic grades the school produces and wanted that for your DD. How else do you think they get those grades? Of course they push those students hard.

Now, if your DD has SEND, there hopefully is support in place for her and a plan about what she can/can't do/needs extra support with. If she does not have SEND, then I'm sorry, you sent your DD to a Grammar to be pushed exactly like that!

BlueSapp · 25/04/2018 13:53

I would imagine motivation is not the aim by saying you need a 7( don't understand the number system we still work on A B C system) Its about setting a level of attainment, a goal for them, The motivation would be more whats happening in the classroom, are they encouraged and helped or ignored if they are not deemed good enough?

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 25/04/2018 14:02

DD2s target grades are all 8s ( wants to better what her sister got at GCSE 7 A +3A* ).However her brother (17) will be very happy with grade 4 at Maths/English he is taking this year .

He is an independent specialist school specialising in learning difficulties .
The progress he has made has been 'miraculous' . This has been through his pure determination and exceptional graft. He has achieved far outside of what we thought was possible !

I don't want DD2 demeaning his genuine achievements...

OP posts:
sparepantsandtoothbrush · 25/04/2018 14:12

But expectations at your DD's grammar school are bound to be higher than at your son's school. As long as your DD doesn't mention it in front of her brother I don't see the issue

Buglife · 25/04/2018 14:15

It’s up to you to tell your daughter not to denigrate your sons achievements then surely, not up to a totally different school from the one that he attends. In a Grammar I imagine the children are expected to attain high grades otherwise what’s the point of them?

Buglife · 25/04/2018 14:16

Your son sounds fantastic by the way, just keep letting him know he’s done amazingly well.

SaucyJack · 25/04/2018 14:19

Your issue seems to be entirely specific to your family.

What's the point in getting a hump on at the grammar school?

SweetSummerchild · 25/04/2018 14:21

I don't want DD2 demeaning his genuine achievements...

If she does that then that is more a reflection on her character than on the academic expectations of her school.

YABU to send your daughter to a grammar school and then go on to criticise the high expectations of achievement which probably led to you applying to that school in the first place.

If you don’t like it, I’m sure there are places available at local comps.

You can’t eat your cake and have it too.

ilovesooty · 25/04/2018 14:22

I imagine you sent her to the grammar school for good reasons.

What is your experience and knowledge of motivational techniques or pupil management?

SweetSummerchild · 25/04/2018 14:25

Oh, and my physics teacher told me that if I didn’t get an A at O level then he’d consider me to have failed.

That didn’t mean I couldn’t appreciate that some pupils at really achieved something to scrape a C.

That’s because I wasn’t a conceited little *

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 25/04/2018 14:45

I tell my children and people I tutor that I want to see them achieve their potential. For some people the equivalent of a D would see me chuffed to bit at the commitment and indefatigableness they'd shown to get that. For others, the equivalent of an A would make me wish they'd got a bit more sleep the night before.

Tell your daughter to work to achieve her potential, and that she must never knock anyone else for not being able to achieve the same. None of us have the potential to be good at everything.

LimeIce · 25/04/2018 15:46

If you don’t like it, I’m sure there are places available at local comps
Children in comps are expected to achieve their targets too, so that won't help

dinosaursandtea · 25/04/2018 15:49

If you get below a B at GCSE you certainly shouldn’t be taking it at A Level. And yes a C is a bad grade at a school that selects according to ability,

Boulshired · 25/04/2018 15:56

Even in comprehensive schools, students who wish to apply for certain post 16 colleges have minimum requirements. It’s a new admission criteria with the most sought after establishment wanting the best grades. It will be the same or university.

pointythings · 25/04/2018 16:12

At a grammar I'd kind of expect that kind of talk. In general, all schools set minimum grades to be allowed to continue a subject at A level and that's reasonable. However, encouragement does need to be tailored and should depend on subject. If DD2 gets a 6 in maths and physics, I'll be pleased - if she gets 7 I'll be doing cartwheels. Conversely if she comes away with 6 in English and French she and I will both not be happy. It's all about what's possible within the framework of good support, good teaching and hard work. And a little luck on the day with what comes up in the exam questions.

SweetSummerchild · 25/04/2018 16:46

Children in comps are expected to achieve their targets too, so that won't help

I am well aware of that LimeIce - I taught in a comprehensive school for 14 years so am no stranger to the expectation that pupils achieve their target grades. However, I doubt that there are many comprehensives where an entire year group ‘across the board’ will be expected to achieve all 7+ grades, which seems to be something the OP takes issue with.

Mousefunky · 25/04/2018 16:56

I teach in a college so I have two classes a week of GCSE English students (18+ that have failed to achieve the GCSE in the past.) I am beyond happy for them to achieve anything above a 5 because that is a pass and a pass means being able to further themselves job or career wise.

I also teach A level and Access students and their GCSE grades are completely irrelevant provided they passed. This years A level students are the first I have taught to have been graded under the new system and in one class, one of the brightest and most capable only got a 6 in her GCSE. Provided she meets the criteria this year (which I don’t doubt she will), she has been offered a place at Leeds university. They didn’t give a rats ear about her GCSE grade, it is purely based on her ability at A level.

LimeIce · 25/04/2018 16:58

Nope, there'd be a much bigger range of targets expected. Op's dd may find the same expectations would be placed on the particular set she was placed in though, so I'm not sure it would help to move to a comp.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 25/04/2018 16:59

A 5 is a low C a 6 is a high C so I can see why a grammar school want 7,8 and 9s

Chlokinson · 25/04/2018 16:59

YABU

I'm a teacher (Primary) so I realise it's different. They obviously think the kids are capable and trying to get them fired up to do well.

RedHelenB · 25/04/2018 17:04

Wrong a 5 is a high c and a 6 is a b.

Pengggwn · 25/04/2018 17:24

The entire year group were selected on the basis of their academic ability, so it stands to reason their targets - and the expectation that they will aim for them - are high.

cardibach · 25/04/2018 17:32

Yes, RedHelen is correct. 4 is a low C, 5 a high C! 6-B, 7-A and 8 and 9 both A*.
That said, if her targets are 8, 7 will be a slightly disappointing result (possibly wouldn’t use the term ‘fail’ myself). And your son’s 4 is presumably at or above his target, so is great. It’s up to you to explain that it isn’t absolute grades which should lead to judgements, but performance against potential.

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