Aibu to not know how to handle work bully.

[Skinnyboneylittlepony]

1. Management know what she’s like already but she’s been here 20 years. They prefer to have a high turnover than let her go.

1. I think she set her sights on me after someone said something like ‘gosh pony, you’re so efficient you’re the new Liz’

1. She has people she likes and those she does not. She affects a jolly person’s with management and those she likes. Asking about their weekends.

1. If she does not like you she will be very cold. ‘How was your weekend Liz?’ Silence.

How did it go with Mr Jones. Fine. But only when you’re alone together, which unfortunately happens.

1. She was sabotaging my work but at one point I started screenshooting ‘Liz, I think you accidentally deleted the last paragraph of my report and I think your auto correct changed the name of the client to a wrong spelling.’

‘No, it was you who made those mistakes’ ‘Actually I created a pdf for my own records so I think your computer may be playing up.’ It stopped after that.

Now it’s little things that are hard to prove or sound petty ‘she looked at me for a long time!’

Do you have suggestions for dealing with such a supervisor apart from moving jobs.

You fixed 5 really well. Re 4 - don't speak to her! You don't need or want the conversation. If it's client or job relayed, email to ask if the meeting went well/if there's anything you need an update on.

Re the looking at you bit. Ask her what she wants. If she says "nothing", point out in tinkly way that it is funny she was staring then. Don't be an arse for arse's sake, but don't just take it either. The pdf thing was perfect, so just more confidence in dealing with her.

Evidence. Keep. Everything.

Keep a diary and include details of any witnesses to everything.

Never tell her anything. Ignore at all costs. She will use any vulnerability she can see.

Also, do not trust others in the office. She probably has others doing her dirty work.

I am so sorry this is happening to you ok. I am a survivor but I had to leave because I became so ill - couldn’t get up for months. I hit HR with everything before I left though and left them with the problem.

You must leave for the sake of your health if it gets too bad.

I know a liz, she is bat shit, keep a log of incidents, be assertive and manage it like any other problem (a leaky toilet, or drilping tap).

Keep saying to management during one to ones how distruptive and uncomfortable her approach is, make sure you can take a Liz day or go to a different part of the office if it gets too much.

Its horrible, especiallly when managers minimise it. It may be best to form an exit plan from the job for your own peace of mind.

I had one like this, to three point I wonder if its the same person!
I reported her for bullying. Thankfully my boss took legal advice and dealt with it properly - she was suspended for a couple if days while they investigated and then given a written warning. She was so pissed off that shortly after she handed in her notice.
I realise this may not work in your case but do document everything and report her.

Did you report point 4?

I mean point 5!! Sorry.

Others are suggesting that you report her.

Be careful here. Boss may be in on it too. They will close ranks and fuck you over.

Go to your union before addressing it with the boss person.

I worked for a Liz. I left. Pure evil. And the management were ‘Oh I know what she’s like’ but didn’t do anything either. I kind of wonder if it’s the same person. She’d been there since she left school and totally manipulated the management to do what she wanted and they also accepted a high turnover to keep her. Big work sabotager too. Honestly, I would start looking for something else. I ended up so oppressed and gas lighted I almost had a breakdown. People like that don’t change, get out, it’s not worth it.

I manage a Liz. She’s probably cleverer than your Liz as she manipulates others into doing her deeds for her. She’s very selective about who she targets and sucks up to important people who don’t see through her. Every so often a new person starts and sees her, which is very helpful when you get to a point where you think it must be you as everyone else says she’s so lovely. Occasionally she drops the facade and I’m able to take action, but then she learns how to avoid the same thing happening. She is also good at bullying up, when she doesn’t get her own way she has learnt to mobilise her followers into making my life difficult. It’s massively frustrating. She’s also ok (not brilliant) at her job which keeps certain people on board with her. You’re doing all the right things, keeping a log and watching your work carefully all good. Report everything to the line manager and keep a log of that. If more people complained to me about my Liz then I could probably have got rid of her by now. I would do what another poster said and generally ignore her, be polite make a point of saying good morning Liz but otherwise only speak about work. She has no power over you then. Also I would say no harm in confronting her (Liz is generally a coward and hates being confronted) eg is there a reason you didn’t reply to me?

I once worked for someone exactly as you have described! Had her favourites who could do no wrong, others were ignored/criticised. She had a favourite saying (if one of her non-faves was telling a story where, for example something had gone wrong for them over the weekend) always muttered so you could just hear it but others may not. One day she said it in my direction and I replied “Sorry, was there something you wanted to say?” She blushed and looked away and didn’t do it any more. There was lots of other stuff as well, I left eventually as I couldn’t stand it any longer.

I have worked with two Liz’s. One was actually called Liz. One was my boss. The first Liz was completely batshit. Management finally got their fingers out & took her off to HR. About 8 of us had to go along and give evidence of her complete batshit-ness. She produced a diary which supposedly listed all the vile things we had done to her , racist slurs, arguments, Work sabotaging, all completely made up. HR were awful tbh, really ineffectual. All they ended up recommended him was that we never be alone with her. Not easy.
The other one, my boss, nearly broke me, I used to sit in the car park crying at the thought of another day of her snide remarks, piling all the work on me and her constantly taking me into her office to tell me how much everyone hated me. It made me completely paranoid and I ended up leaving.
All I can really suggest is to keep a record of everything You’ve already sorted out her sabotaging your work in a really good way. She needs to know you won’t back down. I know that’s hard.
Although management let her get away with things, they do know what she’s like and they must know it’s unacceptable. Personally I would get some evidence and then ask a member of management to set up a meeting with HR, this cannot be allowed to continue. It will end up harming your mental health. Good luck!

Any rudeness/ignoring, could you be super passive-aggressive and make a really obvious note while muttering under your breath 'Another one for the log, blanked me once more...' whilst rolling your eyes and sighing dramatically? Once she knows you're recording it all, maybe she'll give it a bloody rest?

What do you think management think of her? Is she good at her job? Easily replaced?

Why would they rather she causes a high turnover than deal with the issue.

I managed a woman like her when I was new and inexperienced. I let her carry on as she would have been harder to replace than 50 of the staff she 'chased away'.

Depending on management's opinion of her, you might struggle to do anything besides confront her. A log of "looked at me for too long" or "didn't give details when asked about her holiday" make you look a little twatty.

If 5. becomes an issue again then it's easily dealt with.

Thanks for all the answers. I love my job apart from her so I am reluctant to leave. I first thought it was just me, then a few people confided in me how they felt and we saw it was a pattern.

I think they keep her because she really knows the industry. She knows most of the systems and is good (not brilliant) at her job. She hates our clients and if full of nasty comments behind their backs. ‘That’s mrs Jones again, dosey cow’s going to be changing her mind again’ type of thing.

Every 8 months or so the complaints build up, she gets a talking to, she’s nice for 3 days then business as usual.

It’s difficult to log her behaviour as she is clever enough not to do anything overt.

Make sure all work related interactions are confirmed in an email. So you discuss, she says you do x and I'll do y, send an email saying what was agreed. That way she can't later pretend you were supposed to be doing y.
I have been managed by a Liz and also been a manager to a Liz, it's a minefield. Keep everything

Liz’s are normally miserable bastards who get all their kicks at work because they have little else on outside the office.

Sounds like you’ve been handling it really well OP. I would suggest not bothering to waste energy asking her nice questions, just speak to her solely about professional matters. I know it’s easier said than done but try and rise above it, you are good at your job - that’s why you’re threatening.

Thanks for the words of support and advice.

Do you often find yourself alone with her? I certainly wouldn't be asking how she is, but I would blatantly say hello, so that she couldn't complain about my ignoring her. Which she would, even though she's the one ignoring you!

Did you complain about 5?

I'd try to get things in writing, too, if she's daft enough to email you with this sort of thing.

I didn’t complain about the sabotage. At first I thought I was going mad. Letters I was sure I put in the post not being there etc.

The screenshots showed she was tampering with things after I submitted them, or deleting actions I had taken. It’s only really the last incident I got real proof of and that could have been fudged as ‘computer trouble’.

It’s difficult to log her behaviour as she is clever enough not to do anything overt. That's the problem isn't it? And as a pp said logging things like she looked at me too long won't do it, in fact I'd go so far as to say that type of example could do more harm to you than anyone else.

You dealt with the sabotage very well, do carry on saving your work so if she's tempted to start that again you have proof. Things like letters in the post is a bit trickier because you can't accuse her but you can innocently point out to everyone "Gosh, that's odd, there seems to be some problem with the post, has anyone else noticed this happening?" every single time. Then when it's happened a few times you innocently flag the post problem with your manager with no suggestion that it's her, your just letting manager know that there's some problem. If you've already made some noise about it as it were, then if she does manage to sabotage your correspondence it won't look like you've just not issued them.

Other than that I can only suggest avoiding any one to one interaction with her where possible and if you do have to engage with her keep it short but very sweet . You don't want to give her any scope to say you've been off with her so big smiles and lots of "thanks Liz, ooh good idea Liz". Specially in front of others, that will really piss her off (yeah I know but sometimes little victories help you through the day).

Buy a little dictaphone (www.<a class="break-all" href="https://amazon.co.uk/Olympus-VN-7800-Non-Digital-Recorder/dp/B01144A9BU/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=olympus%20voice%20recorder%29&ie=UTF8&qid=1524684975&sr=8-8&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-am-i-being-unreasonable-3231350-Aibu-to-not-know-how-to-handle-work-bully" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.co.uk/Olympus-VN-7800-Non-Digital-Recorder/dp/B01144A9BU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1524684975&sr=8-8&keywords=olympus+voice+recorder) and record her. Even just listening back to it might help figure out how to deal with her.

I'm actually called Liz and I'm feeling a little bit paranoid by this thread.
Obviously they are not about me as I am a constant delight but even so..... 😂

I remember a Liz at work. She was my manager. She was there for many years, made herself totally indispensible so senior management would never get rid of her. From my first day when she didn't say hello, walked straight past me, didn't ask me anything about myself, didn't smile at me, I realised we were not going to get on. She undermined me, excluded me, made life very difficult. I went into battle with her and lost. In the end I knew I wouldn't win and left. Life is too short. Took me 6 years to realise that though. I watched a programme about psychopaths one day and realised she ticked all the boxes for this.

She’s not actually called Liz, BigStripeyBastard!