Can I ask what employers are looking for?

[Pepperypig]

My son has been trying to get a job for ages. He has an honours degree and to be honest possibly messed about a bit and didn't get a job straight away. He is not wanting to work in the profession of his degree and I doubt he would ever get a job in it anyway. He has had a couple of part time temporary jobs and is desperate for a full time job. He has been for quite a few interviews and is always told they will let him know one way or another - they very rarely do and he has to contact them directly to be told he doesn't have the job. Any tips from any employers? He will literally do anything at this point.

He is probably being rejected for th8ngs like bar work as his degree is totally unrelated and the employer will hesitate to recruit him as they will expect him to move on quickly. Has he looked into any digital jobs even admin or data entry? I would recommend he looks for jobs that relate to IT in any way shape or form as that’s where his skills can be proven through his degree. The National Careers website has a skills checker and job profile part as well as interview help that may help? It’s long winded but I found them really useful.

Help with cv and interview coaching would be a good start.

You'd be surprised the number of people who are late, don't have general common sense/ business etiquette - eg don't call me mate in an interview! Ask me questions! If you don't I think you're not interested in the role.

How is he following up after the interview? I would always expect a polite follow up email later the same day.

@TalkFastThinkSlow yes i can do the math, i went to uni doing a course that had 8hrs contact time a week and i worked 3 part time jobs.

If he graduated in the last few years, the careers service at his uni should be still willing to work with him so he should get in touch with them and see what courses or workshops they can offer as well as looking at their job listings.

It sounds like he did something like computer game design? So not really fully fledged programming but had a bit of a teaching in some stuff? Sort of falls in the gap of not quite one thing nor the other.

If he wants to be in tech and has the nous and commitment to study himself, then he could get on hackerrank website and work up the levels in something like python which has a broad usage base. If If he can get to high levels of proficiency on there, he would have lots of employers interested in him. He said also be working on his own projects and publishing the scripts on GitHub so he can share them with potential employers.

You said he messed around - I guess maybe not a 2:1? A friend of mine was off his face for most of uni and got a 3rd but after realising the world was a thought place, he worked and studied very hard on his programming skills in languages that he checked were highly in demand and now makes a 6 figure sum in a large organisation. But he had to work very hard at the beginning to overcome the fact he had a pretty crap CV.

Why do you think he wouldn’t get an IT job?

Entry level helpdesk jobs can be quite diverse and interesting and frequently lead to other opportunities inside the IT department.

Also, jobs as testers, I started out in testing then moved to development, became a consultant, then a manager, then back to development cos I love it.

I’ve found it very useful to have a background in testing, it’s made me a much better coder.

OP, how bad was the 'messing around' part? I'd overlooked that.

I'm asking because I'm in tech and, in my experience, the competition for talented graduates is insane. The lengths we go to in order to schmooze the most promising students in the hope that they'll consider joining after graduation are considerable.

BTW, have you tried companies that aren't traditionally 'techie' but have jumped on the digitization bandwagon? Several of the professional services firms fall into that category.

I mean the EYs, PWCs, Deloittes and KPMGs of this world as opposed to the Googles, IBMs, DXCs, Accentures and Cap Geminis.

I have several acquaintances working for the former group that I'd personally see struggling getting employed by the latter - I rather suspect that, while prestigious in their core fields, they might not have the name recognition among the kinds of people really wanting a tech job yet that the latter group do. This is probably a fast closing window, though, given these companies' well oiled recruiting machines and budget.

Recruitment agency? I used to work in local government and there were always a fair few people who started out on temp contracts via recruitment agencies who were in permanent full time posts after a couple of years.

And has he signed up to linked in? I had recruitment trying to employ me just by having my phone number up.

Agree with getting onto Linked In if he's not already on there & he just needs to keep on trying. If he's genuinely looking, then he'll get a job eventually but should consider volunteering to have something extra / work related to go on his CV, which demonstrates his work ethic / customer service / ability to deal with a variety of situations etc etc.

Good luck to him

Is he on LinkedIn? A lot of IT recruitment happens through LinkedIn these days.

Also, I suspect this isn't an issue if he's getting interviews, but has he tidied up any social media accounts, and locked down the security, so they're not open to the works?

See I cross-posted there while my phone froze.

Any big employer will have an IT department, though in some cases, it will be outsourced to other providers. I'm currently in the private sector (haven't always been,) and I have a few colleagues who started out as contractors or temps.

Also, while it's some years since I was unemployed, I found temping better than signing on - and I learned a lot in the 3 months I did with a facilities management company.

Has he tried any grad schemes? You can get ones that do rotation so it helps people who are uncertain of career choices. Most starting salaries are £30k

Also has he tried speaking to his university and asking for support? They offer great support

My previous job was looking for people. Training was provided on the job. We were looking for people with enthusiasm, excellent communication skills written and verbal (to be able to attend international calls). Technical qualifications were acceptable, but not necessary. Able to prioritize own work load. Willing to learn new things. To live within an acceptable commuting distance or relocate nearer to work place. To participate in the added extras tasks like first aid, volunteer day, charity fund raise. Be a good all rounder. I have worked with people who had degrees in lots of different subjects and some who had no degree. All the people have been 100‰ committed and have gone above and beyond in their job

The thing is I think nowadays it is not what you know it's who you know - he just needs given a chance. He's a clever lad but hasn't put enough effort in in the past.
This is not correct that it's about who you know. Most people who get jobs after interview have never met the people. You say it yourself, he hasn't put an effort in the past, so if this shows at interview, they are not going to give him a chance. He needs to start making efforts and he will then be given a chance.

In terms of interview, he needs to show that he has the skills, including personal skills to apply to the role. For this, he needs to give example. The questions asked are often looking for the same answers, so he needs to practice this and think of examples that can show that he does have those skills already. It doesn't have to work experience, although of course, the closest to what he will be expected to do, the better, so he needs to focus on how to relate his example with the job.

He also needs to show initiatives and that he is pro-active, so any activities he can get involved in will help. Going to job fairs, joining entrepreneurial local groups, looking into free training etc....

He'll get there, but the more he can do to make himself stand out, the better his chances.

I've been interviewing recently and one so far was a successful candidate and one was unsuccessful

It is not 'who you know' the unsuccessful candidates mother and step father work in our business! But reasons I declined him after interview were -his personality was overbearing and 'know it all' -he had spent no time in preparing any well structured interview answers to my competency questions -to try and get ANY answers my colleague and I had to offer him examples ourselves such as 'I can see you did bar work can you think of any examples of 'x' from that time?'

He needs to sign up with an agency such as Reed. It'll give him work experience, references and if he's reliable a very large foot in the door. It is also a great way to get to know different companies behind the glossy facade.

It is not 'who you know'

Not once you get to interview - that's down to how you answer. But I think if you can build a good network, it can increase your chances of getting to interview, and obviously that's a key part of getting a job.

I don't think there's anything new about that. We recently had some execs over from the US, and it was very interesting, hearing how they followed people's careers, and encouraged good people to go for jobs they might not have considered on their own, and just made sure people were aware of vacancies. I think that sort of support can make a difference at all levels - you've got to do the work of applying and interviewing, but knowing people can mean that you're more likely to know about things you can apply for, and have more chance of getting to interview.

back in the day all you had to do was speak to someone and you could get someone in but it's different now

There is still an element of this. My public sector employer has a 'friends and family' scheme especially for temps, so worth asking around.

Also the agency suggestion is a good one, especially if's not confident at performing at interviews, as interviews with agencies seem to be less 'interview like' than direct with an employer.

And they can be a great way to get experience and a foot in the door, even if it's not directly what he wants to do, eg if he can get in for basic admin support and then if an employer likes him, he might be considered for any IT or other suitable posts they have. Recruiting is expensive and time consuming, so if an employer has someone suitable that they know right in front of them, many will be more than willing to take them on.

Ok, I work in grad recruitment, first Of all his CV needs to be good. No more than 2 pages long. Well formatted, dates, grades, all work experience on there- even voluntary. Good opening statement outlining skills and ambition at the top.
If he has no work experience looks like he might have to consider an internship to get some experience on his CV. Most students do an industrial placement year now so he will be falling behind already.
Register with some specialist graduate employment agencies (google them) as they will match him to jobs he’s never thought about based on his degree.
The main thing is how he comes across to employers/ recruitment agents. He needs to be earnest and keen- acknowledge he needs to start at the bottom and work his way up. Do LOADS of research on the roles he is applying for and sound enthusiastic and switched on. Get back to people straight away. Talk like an adult, if you know what I mean. He needs to look and sound like a hard worker.

Some great suggestions in this thread. Speaking from my own experience I graduated with an Arts degree in 2016, and managed to gain a paid data science internship whilst doing a Masters course in 2017. I didn't have any prior programming experience before the internship and hadn't even done computing GCSE or A Level. I had to relocate due to my husband's job to a different country so went for a Data Analyst position and have just been hired for a Business Analyst position in an international firm.

My point is that there was no clear jump for me to go down the data analysis route - I had to work hard to look like a viable candidate by showing my prospective employers that I am enthusiastic, learn very quickly, and have basic analytical skills. I really worked on selling my transferable skills to my interviewers (e.g. communication, organisation, project management).

If your son has any coding experience he should consider a paid internship at a corporation (I was first employed at a FinTech) - its a brilliant springboard for career progression.

The main thing my interviewers have wanted to see is evidence of independent learning. Has your son considered signing up to free courses (e.g. DataCamp, CoursEra, LinkedIn Learning) or working on ad hoc projects (e.g. apps) so he can show his interviewers that he's self-motivated and has demonstrable skills?

Sorry forgot to say that the data analysis role was an unpaid internship. Unfortunately your son may have to consider an unpaid 3 month internship so that he can get some relevant work experience for his next role. I really feel for him - it sucked working for free but it all worked out in the end!

We have been interviewing for compliance roles and also considered graduates with vaguely related degrees eg law - the ones that were not successful came across as just applying for any role and had clearly no understanding of a compliance role and had done no research whatsoever - a graduate was successful and had clearly done a great deal of research in to what would be required of the role and showed he was really interested in working in this industry - not just applying for any role going.