Page 3 | To be shocked that this is happening in Britain in 2018?

Spending2muchtimeonMN · 2018-04-21T23:38:19+00:00

Masked men try to prevent women from attending a lawful, public meeting to discuss the impact of proposed changes to the law on women's rights: [[https://www.facebook.com/julie.bindel/videos/pcb.10160135970780316/10160135907955316]]

flippyfloppyflower · 22/04/2018 07:38

sentMai your argument is flawed - you cannot judge me as you do not know me or my family.

There is a legal and moral question here (and if you cannot see it you have really serious issues) about the right to enter a legal meeting and being prevented by arseholes of men/women/aliens. If you do not know the difference of what can be legal but morally wrong go study Germany in the 1920s/30s and 40s.

Again I ask and I am still waiting for an answer is if they were so proud of their actions why were they wearing masks

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/04/2018 07:41

SistersUncut seems to have started as a protest group against cuts in services for women's refuges and women being deported. However, it seems to have ended up with a strong representation of trans women too. They were protesting outside the court when Tara Wolf was tried for assaulting a woman on her way to a predecessor to this Bristol event. They were not there to support the woman who had been assaulted, of course. They wanted to show solidarity with the aggressor. I can't get my head round this. How can you campaign for women's refuges one minute and next minute for someone who punched a woman in the face for the crime of having a different point of view?

SentMai is living in a different world from the rest of us. I have fortunately never been surrounded by deep-voiced masked people of male height and build on a narrow staircase. I have never had a complete stranger shriek at me that I am a cunt for not knowing that the person's preferred pronoun is 'they', not 'she'. However, I have enough imagination to see that both those situations would be scary and unpleasant. A woman in the comments on that Bristol News article linked to above says she was there and met one of the women trapped on the stairs. She was still shaking 20 minutes later.

This is Magdalen Bern's video of the cunt incident: twitter.com/twitter/statuses/987703549768491008

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 22/04/2018 07:44

Having been to a fair number of protests for varying causes I can say that without exception people who turn up in masks to conceal their identity are not doing so becasue they plan on remaining peaceful.

Stormwhale · 22/04/2018 08:00

They are just showing themselves as they are. Each time they behave in this way, more people will see them for the violent thugs they are. They have no right to stop people meeting about this. I am disappointed by the police response. A peaceful protest is one thing, but the masks etc is a clear attempt to intimidate. It should have at least been seen as a breach of the peace.

I think this will continue though. Their attempts to stop this debate will become more and more desperate as they realise they are failing. They want to shut it down, and they are failing.

2andcountingtodate · 22/04/2018 08:01

Let's forget the circumstances surrounding this for a moment. If you were a lone woman walking down the road or in a space like this and people were masked and trying to stop you from getting in, it would be intimidating at the very least. I would feel very threatened in this situation and would likely feel quite panicked. How is it OK to make someone feel like that?

Id have a panic attatck, not just feel threatened. It isnt right for anyone to bar someone from a meeting. Whatever it is about. Thats attempting to silence them if they manage it. If they disagree with their stance then they should be prepared to verbally challenge it. If not then it implies to me that they are the kind to shout down and manipulate rather than challenge and debate. Which makes me wonder about whatever stance they are taking...

sentMai · 22/04/2018 08:04

@StealthPolarBear

"Ah so they were 'allowed' to leave. Well clearly yes."

So not trapped. I'm not looking to derail a thread and argue about wording but it is important when describing a situation like the one in Bristol.

"They certainly weren't allowed to attend but is that OK?"

I'm not sure. There are some times where I think protesting even a meeting is a good thing. The guy with a trombone who wears a rainbow suit and follows the 'God Hates Fags' people is fucking brilliant. I'm not likening this meeting to the homophobic groups but I don't think disruptive protest is a bad thing in many cases.

@flippyfloppyflower

"your argument is flawed - you cannot judge me as you do not know me or my family."

Bollocks. I can and do judge people on their appearance, things they type online, the company they choose, the books they read, the films they watch, their job title, their username ...

Some of those are better indicators of personality and character than others but to deny the fact that we all judge is utter BS. With minimal data, humans naturally process information and use knowledge to judge others. The intelligent ones allow for changes in knowledge as data is increased.

"Again I ask and I am still waiting for an answer is if they were so proud of their actions why were they wearing masks"

Because neither of the extreme groups in this debate are showering themselves in glory. I haven't once said I support these protesters' actions. I have no doubt that TERFs would have tried to make these people's lives difficult if their identities were known.

I hate to kind-of-answer a question with a question but are you happy to tell us who you are? Even simply post a picture of your face?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

"SentMai is living in a different world from the rest of us."

I sometimes think so too. I note the use of language to create an in-group though

"I have fortunately never been surrounded by deep-voiced masked people of male height and build on a narrow staircase."

Surrounded is not the right word.

"I have never had a complete stranger shriek at me that I am a cunt for not knowing that the person's preferred pronoun is 'they', not 'she'."

I can see why antagonistic misgendering (and I hate new BS words) could make someone angry. I bet there was a lot of adrenaline on both sides. Isn't "shrieking" a bit misogynistic?

Even MN don't allow deliberate misuse of pronouns.

"A woman in the comments on that Bristol News article linked to above says she was there and met one of the women trapped on the stairs."

A trusted source then.

"She was still shaking 20 minutes later. "

Was the woman she met that bad?

ChattyLion · 22/04/2018 08:08

TotallyLibrarian holy crap thank you for the link, so TRAs do also destroy books. That tells you all you need to know about a movement doesn’t it.

WTF?
HOW are these people fooling themselves that they are speaking for anyone but themselves? that they have any semblance if moral right on their side when they use these tactics? Blocking and trapping, physical intimidation to stop free speech, harassment, touching, assault?
They’re just male supremacists thugs and their co-opted goons. Shame on them. Utter, utter shower.

flippyfloppyflower · 22/04/2018 08:10

sentMai again your logic is flawed. You have judged me on one criteria - a speedily and angrily typed post on a dodgy phone on a public forum. And intelligent ones do not do that.

You give me your full details and I'll give you mine (deal?)

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 22/04/2018 08:12

I have no doubt that TERFs would have tried to make these people's lives difficult if their identities were known.

You mean like compiling a list of dangerous people and spreading it around social media???

TheElementsSong · 22/04/2018 08:14

Personally I love how hard Sentmai is working here - so much so I just had to de-lurk to thank them for doing a really good job on this thread and showing everybody the truth of this incident. Come on everyone, we should be grateful.

ReluctantCamper · 22/04/2018 08:14

snort

Even MN don't allow deliberate misuse of pronouns.

how in the name of fuck would anyone know that a young woman's preferred pronoun is they?

Jesus fucking christ sentMai, this is sophistry taken a little too far.

felicitythemangyfox · 22/04/2018 08:15

sentMai

Trespass is a civil matter, yes, although it could still be a factor in breach of the peace or be part of other offences iyswim.

Covering faces while protesting is perfectly legal (unless there is a s60AA in place in which case police can require that they are removed)

Slapping a phone out of someone's hand is assault.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/04/2018 08:15

Nice supercilious tone there, SentMai. You are the only dissenting voice on this thread, I think, hence 'the rest of us'. As for 'surrounded', if there are masked people ahead and protestors immediately behind, I'd say that was the right choice of word. And great work, cracking a joke instead of showing some empathy for a frightened woman.

exLtEveDallas · 22/04/2018 08:18

Again I ask and I am still waiting for an answer is if they were so proud of their actions why were they wearing masks

I have no doubt that TERFs would have tried to make these people's lives difficult if their identities were known

They wear masks so they can deny that they were there and promoting violence, especially as Tara (Tanis) Wolf reminded them that NOT wearing a mask resulting in conviction for assault. It is nothing to do with doxxing, it is because they don't want to be caught and charged with violence against women - just like most criminals. Burglars, Rapists, Football Hooligans, Terrorists, Shoplifters - they wear masks because they know what they are doing is against the law and they don't have the balls (pun intended) to follow through with their beliefs.... If they really did think they were on the 'right side of history' they would be out and proud. But they aren't...

Original poster

Spending2muchtimeonMN · 22/04/2018 08:18

@ReturnofSaturn Yes that's fine. It's Julie Bindel's video which she has made public.

OP posts:

ReluctantCamper · 22/04/2018 08:19

Come on, let's be real here. A confrontation with mostly men in masks? I talk the big talk on here, but I would have been fucking terrified.

As a lib fem in my 20's I used to read Julie Bindel's feminist articles in the Guardian, come to the conclusion that she was a paranoid monomaniac, roll my eyes and move on.

I simply cannot tell you how much respect I have for Julie Bindel now. She was right, she was fucking right all along. And she's so, so brave.

ChattyLion · 22/04/2018 08:27

Julie Bindel has more moral courage, physical bravery (and despite that harassment, good sense and good humour), than those masked, bullying thug sheeple could ever aspire to. to her.

surferjet · 22/04/2018 08:28

This is a difficulty one.
Because the thing is, the very people complaining about these protesters would probably support the ( sometimes violent ) protests around UKIP or other ( completely lawful ) political parties they didn’t agree with.
Remember when Nick Griffin appeared on question time? remember the protests?
He wasn’t doing anything illegal but certain groups wanted to silence him.
I can’t see the difference quite honestly.
You either agree with freedom of speech or you don’t.

exLtEveDallas · 22/04/2018 08:31

I agree with Freedom of Speech, but cruiyially, the TRAs don't. That was what their protest was all about, they didn't want the women (and transwomen and men) to speak about the GRA. They are in full favour of 'No Debate', which is ridiculous.

Beachcomber · 22/04/2018 08:31

Sentmai, it's difficult to take anything you say seriously due to your comparing masking one's face in order to intimidate people going about their business with being bothered about a data breach.

I've read some shite in my time about transideology but your attempt to minimize masked intimidation by simultaneously minimizing disregard for a right to data protection is quite something!!

Wimmin of MN you are just like masked men intimidating women in public places because you support data protection on the internet

It's quite incredible isn't it this double vision of male behavior and female behavior. Especially when it's done by people who would claim until they are blue in the face that they really really believe males to be females....

exLtEveDallas · 22/04/2018 08:32

*crucially

busyboysmum · 22/04/2018 08:33

It would seem that they are now masked so that if they do hurt a woman as Tanis Wolf did then they can't be so easily identified.

It was only the clear video evidence that got a conviction in that case.

Tanis can be seen on Facebook urging them to make sure their faces can't be seen.

2andcountingtodate · 22/04/2018 08:33

Because the thing is, the very people complaining about these protesters would probably support the ( sometimes violent ) protests around UKIP or other ( completely lawful ) political parties they didn’t agree with.

I wouldnt. I believe in freedon of speech no mattter how ugly. Trying to silence doesnt work, it makes it insiduous. Only hearing and challenging can counter it. Doesnt matter what the subject is.

madvixen · 22/04/2018 08:33

We seem to have raised a generation who believe that free speech is only acceptable if they like what you are saying and judge it to be "correct thinking". The easiest way to shout down non correct thinking is for them to label it phobic. We've seen it with debates around gay marriage and immigration and now we're seeing it with the self ID debate.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 22/04/2018 08:34

Am I right in thinking that a few years back these same people would be running around on may day breaking bank windows and yelling about class war?

Same mob, different bandwagon. Are they most young men too?

If they need a cause so much (to burn off a bit or testosterone) why don't they protest about pensions or childcare - oh hang on, that not 'edgy' or 'anti establishment' enough for them?