AIBU to think statutory sick pay is a joke

[Rainysummersday]

I think sick pay is a basic right all workers should be entitled to. I agree workers should have to work for a minimum period before getting it, but it’s shocking some big companies only pay statutory in 2018. Do they want people to come in vomiting as they need to pay the rent?

Statutory sick pay is only about £92 a week and you have to be off for four days in a row to get anything. I very rarely take days off sick, and when I have it’s because I have no choice and aim to return to work as soon as possible. Penalising hard workers for something out of their control (who wants to be sick?) is awful imo.

Yes there are some people who abuse the system, but it’s few and far between.

When I was in the civil service I used up my 6 months full 6 months half pay and had to get sick pay at pension rate. Not because I was taking days off with colds or skiving, but because I had six surgeries in the space of two years. But I’m glad that all happened while I got sick pay.

I’m in the private sector now and only get two weeks sick pay, but have recently had time off for more surgery and they actually paid me for four weeks, and I took the other two as holiday. I’m just very grateful that they were so nice and paid me double what they had to.

If there was an insurance policy I’m sure it would exclude pre existing conditions so for people like me that wouldn’t be a feasible option.

how is a company going bust any worse than an individual, say, losing their home because their SSP isn't sufficient to cover their bills?

Because then, instead of one person being affected, many more are affected? The owner of the business (many of whom have to use their own homes as security for money borrowed to grow the business), their family, the other employees and their families and the creditors of the business and their families, employees and so on and so on... Business failure has significant affects outside the business itself and the owner. Most businesses are run by people who don't make a huge amount of money from it.

No just sick pay. Holidays fine.

YANBU.

Sick pay is ridiculous. People should be entitled to paid leave if they're off sick - and more than £90 a week. That's nowhere near enough for people to live off, and unfortunately it's the low paid industries that don't pay sick pay - and those employed in those industries tend to be the ones who can't afford to save for a rainy day either.

Is it not up to the business owner to scale their business accordingly?

The business would already have decided that it could afford to pay (at least) minimum wage to the employee. No one is suggesting that an enhanced level of SSP should be paid indefinitely to a sick employee. If the business cannot afford to continue paying the equivalent of minimum wage during a reasonable period of sickness, it suggests to me that the business at its current scale isn't financially viable.

Most businesses are run by people who don't make a huge amount of money from it Fair enough, but then they have to consider the number of people they employ and scale this to the modest level of the profit.

And here is the argument for income protection. Very few companies pay sick now. Its a relatively cheap insurance, and can literally mean the difference between repossession and living.

Having recently become disabled I’d tend to agree with Morphene. It seems to be the case that illness/disability is considered some sort of personal error/failing when it really is just dumb luck. Makes me think of Nye Bevan’s quote that illness is a misfortune the liability for which should be shared out amongst the community. If you’re not ill or disabled now then you are lucky. Maybe the statutory sick pay rate should be raised.

I’m self employed .
I get paid nothing when I’m off sick yet the expenses of my business still have to be paid.

Sick pay is an imperfect system st the moment but I can’t see how another one would work

Well you could get a job with better benefits.
Goo idea. While I'm at it I'll make myself taller and magic up some perfect health.

Good idea, obviously, not goo idea!

Who needs The Man to keep us under the thumb when we have our peers to do it for him.

My argument would be, that if the £90 p/w SSP get reimbursed by the government, a company could in theory, pay an extra £90 p/w to the employee making is a total of £180 p/w.
A small price to pay for a business to keep an otherwise hard working employee.
I fully agree with the first 3 days being unpaid & having a doctor note after that in order to claim.

I was off sick for about 10 weeks last year - 2 separate accidents. It was very difficult financially. I wasn't off sick for years before this and would have liked some recognition from my employer for this simple fact.
Maybe it is time to change the law a bit....

Four weeks' annual sick pay at min wage for the equivalent of 40 hours per week would cost £1252.

Subtracting the SSP that would be payable anyway, leaves an increased cost of £884 per employee to the employer.

If £884 per employee is enough to break your business, you have too many employees for the size of business.

You don't have to be off for 4 days, you have to be unwell for 4 days first and then go through 3 waiting days before SSP starts being payable. You also don't need a sick note until 7 calendar days off.
The government used to refund it in some instances but stopped that a few years ago.
No system is perfect but this is not the worse I'd say. If we want more sick pay it would come via the government so more tax. I don't think I'd want more tax tbh...

Oh and also statutory sick pay is a right for any employee regardless of service. Maybe it should be a tier system whereby u don't get it if u've just joined etc but that's not the choice made by government and to some extent it makes sense. Again no system is perfect.

My company are very good and offer 8 weeks full pay for sickness and after 18 months with the company, enrol employees onto a long term illness insurance policy that pays out half pay for up to 2 yrs in the event of a long term illness. I agree SSP is pitiful but its certainly better than nothing

Private income protection insurance is only “relatively cheap” if you’ve never been seriously ill or needed surgery, and don’t have any ongoing conditions or disabilities. If you’re not in the lucky group then it will be expensive.

individual = 1 person
Company = more than one person

Actually that's wrong in the UK (and a few other countries in the world) a company can just consist of one person, so screaming isn't naive.

And while companies can take out insurance to cover sick pay and some other expenses e.g. death of employees it is an added cost.

If a larger company is owned by a venture capitalist firm - and many companies now are especially retailers - it's money they won't spend.

Actually that's wrong in the UK (and a few other countries in the world) a company can just consist of one person, so
screaming isn't naive.

Yes, technically you’re correct, but not in the context of the thread. If it was a one person company then they wouldn’t worry about having to pay employees who were off sick (Apart from there self, which would put them in the exact predicament that the OP is against), would they?

Screaming is being very naive.

@Jelly. I'd still rather pay my £30 per month and know my bills were going to be paid if I was struck down by an illness that was going to take longer than a month to recover from.

I work in that industry and the amount of 'it won't happen to me' attitudes I come across beggars belief.

Personal experience tells me otherwise.

I work for a company that pays full pay for sick leave and people absolutely rip the piss. It's shocking how blatant it is.

You forget that for that month you’d allso have the wages of the replacement.

Our company for 20 people made a profit of £15k last year. It is a tough world out there and thanks to brexit it’s getting tougher. You the through in the living wage increase and pension - our staff are loosing hours as we can’t afford them and the directors are doing 6-7 day weeks. And you want to up ssp.

We can't afford for DH to be off sick so we buy income protection insurance. A friend was diagnosed with cancer and will never work again. It really brought home how bad things would be if the same happened to us.

You forget that for that month you’d allso have the wages of the replacement.

No - that's the case with the present level of SSP, and would remain the case with enhanced SSP, therefore it doesn't involve any increase of expenditure from the status quo.

Regardless we aren’t going to paying anything above SSP. Seen too many people take the piss across many companies which is why lots of big employers have dropped the enhanced sick pay. If you want better coverage take out your own cover.