feeling that tax credits are totally biased towards working mums?

[Dragonhart]

I am a SAHM and I get the min working tax credit as my DH earns just over the min for getting more help.

I was talking to my friend yesterday who works 4 days a week as a teacher (their combined salaries are just below the top of the band of getting any money) and I was saying what I got now we have two children. I get just over £40 plus about £40 baby element. When dd is 1 and I have two under 3 I will get £40.

She told me that she gets about £160 a months towards childcare in vouchers on her and her husbands paypacket (not sure if this is classed as tax credit?) and £75 permonth for her only ds in tax credits.

I am not making a coment about whether or not people choose to work as I stongly believe that everyone should have a choice to do what is right for them.

I just think that I should be supported in the same way as working mums. Surely I am my childrens 'childcare'?

oh well, that's what i thought but worth a try.
but if i had a nanny, i could employ her as say an assistant... who just also happened to help with my children sometimes.... and that could be netted off against profit

does anyone know??!

Amida, you can't because Gordon Brown has made no provision for the self employed. These vouchers are taken out of your pay before you are paid. So, your company deducts your pay by £55 per week (not sure that is the current rate) and gives you a voucher for £55 which you can use to pay an approved childcarer (costs money to get approved each year ). So, this means that you don't pay tax on that moeny, your employer doesn't pay tax on that money, and any benefits that are based on your income (i.e. pension plans) also get a reduced contribution.

The whole thing is stupid. Why doesn't the government just make say up to £250 per month tax deductable if you can show that you spent that much on childcare and if you can show that you work.

The vouchers can be claimed by both of you (if you both have employers who participate). So that's £110 per week.

The employer doesn't have to pay anything to join the scheme from what I understand. It is just paperwork as it is deducted from your salary before you pay tax.

From the government website:
Childcare vouchers
Your options
You have two options when using childcare vouchers:
1 Voucher provider companies can operate childcare
voucher schemes on behalf of employers. They will
charge an administration fee for the service.
2 You can produce and administer childcare vouchers
yourself as long as you make sure the conditions for tax
and NICs exemption are met and you keep records to
support your scheme.
However you decide to provide childcare vouchers, you will
remain responsible for the correct deduction of tax and
payment of NICs even if you choose to use a childcare
voucher provider.

Type childcare vouchers into google and you will get a list of companies that administer the vouchers for companies (for a fee) or, as above you can do it yourself - goodness knows exactly how though....

oh it's so annoying
that means both dh and i are both losing out! grrrrr

Exactly, Amida! Tax evasion is often far more attractive than the useless government approved incentives.

Oh, and some nannies expect you the employer to cover the £96 pund annual registration fee that is required for a nanny to accept these vouchers. So, it costs money to take advantage of the scheme. Ge, thanks Gordon. Are you trying to help or hinder me?

amid - nice try ! i am self-employed too, basically if you are self-employed (run a business even) then you get diddly.

you are eligible for what every one else gets, some free nursery/kindergarden care when they are 3 and 4 - i think it is 2.5 hours per day which you don't pay for.

Of course - could be totally wrong as I am not an employer.

The employers incentive to participate in the vousher scheme is that they don't have to pay the employers tax on the £55 per week. That is meant to cover their administration costs.

well DH's HR dept told him "you've got to be joking, the admin is horrendous and there's only a few of you who would take them"

so they are either lazy buggers or it really is horrendous

and i part own a company rather than self employed... but don't think that makes any difference does it? we don't have any employees, just the two of us who own it.

Xenia I am rofl at your post about sahms! Even though I was one myself until about 18 months ago your picture of the wealthy stereotype is all too accurate! Shall I make a comparison with myself for your amusement?

rich husband... sadly not

wife who looks like a kind of Stepford Wife production line thing with a biggish head and lots of hair that is kind of frozen to the scalp...I have got a big head and thick hair, but I can't do a thing with it

always some sun tan... only my face & arms from riding and working in the garden

never over size 10, usually 8... size 16 - have been an 18 in the past

They all have a live in au pair...can't think of anything worse

the mothers like to pretend they give good quality time to the children... when mine were younger I had up to 7 other children of working mums back here to play after school - all free of charge, just for fun.

actually a lot of them were chosen for their looks... you'd have to ask dh but I think the brain did come into it!

a bit thick anyway... possibly

so I suspect the average nanny might be more stimulating for the children but never mind that as as soon as the school run is done they're at the gym we used to be a member of... I did go to aerobics in the village hall a couple of times a week - does that count?

Some of them do kind of power walking too in 2s and 3s... have seen this - doesn't it look funny?!

I have never seen them gardening because they have people to do that... I do my own - and one for a friend. ds1 mows the lawn.

but sometimes they're a bit busy supervising work men doing things on the house... only have workmen recommended by friends so leave them to get on with it while I bugger off to work or play

The au pair may collect from school... mine have walked home since they were 7.

They would go to the hair dressers once a week often on a Friday as an important part of what their husbands have bought is looks and they may well sleep in some afternoons so they're not tired when it comes to socialising with him... SNORT! Once every couple of months a friend cuts my hair - I do splash out £30 on lowlights every 3-4 months.

Sometimes they tolerate his affairs too because they have no power and no money and they know they need to shut up or they get "sacked" - plenty more trophy wives where they came from... I'd rip his balls off

Their existence is fairly pointless and is all about spending money and appearance... I have done a lot of voluntary work that I wouldn't call pointless. I didn't have much money to spend when the children were tiny. Now that I work half the week I might buy an item of clothing every coupl of weeks or so.

I am sure they love their children but they don't spend much time with them... I would have said that about you - is that unfair?

i own a company too, it is the same thing as being self-employed - you are your own employer

Agree with that - over the years I've helped out for friends with their own small businesses and it's hard work. People imagine that 'being your own boss' is some kind of picnic, but the reality is that you never leave work behind.

fortyplus - you are so funny - "They all have a live in au pair...can't think of anything worse" -

oh but isn't the very young live in au pair meant for the pleasure of the rich husband, not for the kids, as and when he gets bored with the size 8, big hair, bimbo he married he can have a bit on the side right in his own house ?

fortyplus - it is bloody hard work but the advanatge is you don't have some prick of a boss breathing down your neck every day - you control your own life and your own lifestyle - the ideal situation for any woman with children

I've known that happen!

I was really thinking of some of the bad experiences that friends have had with Eastern European and Turkish au pairs.

Don't get me wrong - some have been charming; my brother has had 3 lovely au pairs - 2 French girls and one Hungarian young man.

In fact if I think of the many au pairs friend have had over the years, some of the best have been male - hopefully the husbands weren't shagging them!

I have known 'trophy wives' who will only hire very ugly female staff

yellowrose - and of course my friends were very lucky to have someone multi-talented like me whom they could call upon when they needed extra help

It's the male au pairs for the pleasure of the women that I think are the newer trend - the mannies often blonde from Eastern Europe, good with young sons apparently but may not be so good at ironing. Anyway made me laugh, thanks.

am, there have been a few cases on that kind of thing. You can deduct expenses if you are self employed that are wholly and exclusively connected to your business. There was a case I think of some London barristers who had live in nannies who genuinely did some work real admin works - they would receive papers at home, copy them, fax etc etc and I think the tax office allowed 10% of their wages/costs as a business expense of the self employed barristers. BUT they were doing that admin.

When chidlren get much bigger like mine sometimes they genuinely do work for you. I remember my then 16 year old saying the garage job I gave her of filing, heavy lifting in a freezing space was the worst job anyone had ever given her. In many countries children are a financial resource and the more you have the more income you have as you put them to work.

Hadn't occurred to me that my friends might be shagging their male au pairs! What a naive thing I am... must ask them

well my 3 year old already works for me
every new supplier catalogue that comes in, she goes through it and shows me the things she thinks we should stock. she has good taste!!

my best job ever was during sixth form working for my dad on a building site for 2 weeks one summer... best paid too

When I spoke to the tax credits woman the other day she said that all I needed was a carer/nursery who accepted vouchers.

I then needed to contact them with the date he starts ? with the name, full address & post code, approving body & reg number.

She could have been talking cr*p to get me off the phone though.

(This is with me self employed, DH working).

yes, my 3 year old will defo. be used as "child labour" in my business at some stage, esp. as it is in the fashion business and i can tell he already has very good taste in clothes dh is a senior computer engineer, so already being used as cheap labour

flame - tax credits, not childcare vouchers?
i am getting confused now too.

Feels a bit like the blind leading the blind here. If you look at the HMRC web site links earlier on the thread they probably are a better reference point than people like me who have never claimed them. I think originally only employers issued them but the bit below suggests you could set up your own scheme. I'm not sure.

Now it's mentioned my sister who is self employed said when her twins were under 5 and she used a registered child minder some of the time she was able to get the child care bit for them.

Redf below said

"2 You can produce and administer childcare vouchers
yourself as long as you make sure the conditions for tax
and NICs exemption are met and you keep records to
support your scheme.
However you decide to provide childcare vouchers, you will
remain responsible for the correct deduction of tax and
payment of NICs even if you choose to use a childcare
voucher provider.

Type childcare vouchers into google and you will get a list of companies that administer the vouchers for companies (for a fee) or, as above you can do it yourself - goodness knows exactly how though...."

i have just set up my own company and can pay myself (the only employee) childcare vouchers.

I was asking the tax credits line about childcare vouchers.

She could easily have been fobbing me off - it was the end of a very long list of questions!!