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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

feeling that tax credits are totally biased towards working mums?

572 replies

Dragonhart · 13/05/2007 15:23

I am a SAHM and I get the min working tax credit as my DH earns just over the min for getting more help.

I was talking to my friend yesterday who works 4 days a week as a teacher (their combined salaries are just below the top of the band of getting any money) and I was saying what I got now we have two children. I get just over £40 plus about £40 baby element. When dd is 1 and I have two under 3 I will get £40.

She told me that she gets about £160 a months towards childcare in vouchers on her and her husbands paypacket (not sure if this is classed as tax credit?) and £75 permonth for her only ds in tax credits.

I am not making a coment about whether or not people choose to work as I stongly believe that everyone should have a choice to do what is right for them.

I just think that I should be supported in the same way as working mums. Surely I am my childrens 'childcare'?

OP posts:
Original poster
Dragonhart · 15/05/2007 21:54

NKF, sorry do I still not understand it. I thought that the £160 she gets was tax that she and her dh would have paid and therefore money that she would not get otherwise?

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 15/05/2007 21:56

It depends on the stay at home parent. The norm near my house is rich husband, wife who looks like a kind of Stepford Wife production line thing with a biggish head and lots of hair that is kind of frozen to the scalp, always some sun tan and never over size 10, usually 8. They all have a live in au pair, not a nanny as some of the children are school age and the mothes like to pretend they give good quality time to the children but actually a lot of them were chosen for their looks and are a bit thick anyway so I suspect the average nanny might be more stimulating for the children but never mind that as as soon as the school run is done they're at the gym we used to be a member of. Some of them do kind of power walking too in 2s and 3s. I have never seen them gardening because they have people to do that but sometimes they're a bit busy supervising work men doing things on the house. The au pair may collect from school or do some of that if there are a few children. They would go to the hair dressers once a week often on a Friday as an important part of what their husbands have bought is looks and they may well sleep in some afternoons so they're not tired when it comes to socialising with him. Sometimes they tolerate his affairs too because they have no power and no money and they know they need to shut up or they get "sacked" - plenty more trophy wives where they came from.

Their existence is fairly pointless and is all about spending money and appearance. I am sure they love their children but they don't spend much time with them.

chocolattegirl · 15/05/2007 21:58

I thought the 160 was deducted from their gross salary so it saves her some tax/NI on that portion of their money but they funding the vouchers themselves out of earned income. All they're saving is the tax on that amount .

Original poster
Dragonhart · 15/05/2007 21:58

I suppose that is true Xenia. There are good and not so good mums whether they be sahms or working mums.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dragonhart · 15/05/2007 22:00

I thought the £160 was the tax they had saved?

OP posts:
NKF · 15/05/2007 22:01

Your neighbours sound delightful Xenia.

chocolattegirl · 15/05/2007 22:02

Well it might be - it depends how much tax they're paying. Whatever they're paying for the vouchers comes out of their salaries regardless. I guess 160pm for childcare is a bit low!

Judy1234 · 15/05/2007 22:04

Well they aren't all 100% like that but there are a very large number around here who seem to be the same height as well as weight which I can't work out - why are they all fairly short? The being at the gym every single day mostly to gossip play very unstrenuous tennis and park the baby in the creche there must get a bit dull.

I am probably very wrong about them just like people usually are when they try to generalise about a group of any kind.

Original poster
Dragonhart · 15/05/2007 22:04

Yes, the £160 is the tax they get back on her and her dh salary. According to the busybees website you can get upto £199 towards childcare.

OP posts:
ChocolateFace · 15/05/2007 22:05

Xenia, if the housewives who live near you had jobs, would their lives be any more worth while? They woulnd't be spending any more time with their children, and unless they had a vocation, would only be making more money, for the sake of making more money. -They seem to have enough money already.

chocolattegirl · 15/05/2007 22:06

Maybe their husbands prefer their wives to be shorter than them - so they literally have to look up to them?? .

It does sound a bit of a pointless existence they lead but whatever rocks your boat.

Judy1234 · 15/05/2007 22:12

They might be doing better if they were spending their days doing heart operations or being MPs or something. It may be my upbringing. When we were little my mother used to go on about the awful neighbours all of which women didn't work but had full time nannies, cleaners (one family had a live in housekeeper and full time gardener/handy man in the house near ours) and then sent the chidlren to boarding school. She used to speak disparagingly of one neighbour who horror or horrors used to have a nap after lunch. I suppose my mother made a virtue of her doing everything until we went to school at 5. May be she was just martyring herself. If I were home and didn't need to work and could afford work I would have help because I know I'd be bored with the children and rather spend the afternoon in bed with a book than another 4 hours toddler care a day so may be I'm no different.

Flamesparrow · 15/05/2007 22:19

You get up to 80% of £175.

1dilemma · 15/05/2007 22:22

Dragonhart Each adult can take about 250 pounds a month as a voucher they save the NI and tax on that their employer saves NI. I believe the savings are just under 1000 and around 1200 a year. FYI if I used a commercial nursery where I live that would be just under 1/3 of my monthly childcare bill

Flamesparrow · 15/05/2007 22:23

I think my number is weekly (everything else tax credits tell me is weekly)

tinkerbellie · 15/05/2007 22:30

havemn't read full thread but the wftc is a load of bol**S

i was working in a restaurant a couple of years ago and my son went to a nursery for three full days a week, it cost nearly £400 a month and this is basically what my wage was , but becuase the working families paid £250 towards it it seemed worth it as ds really loved the nursery and i felt it was worth it for him to get to interact with children ofthesame age on a regular basis and i was making money and felt like i got away fro the house for a bit each day

then dh earnt £1000 more one year and they basically turned around and said we owed them £1800 (even though i had kept them informed etc) they reduced our payments by two thirds and i had to give notice on my job and the nusery in time so we wouldn't end up out of pocket

now we get £5 a week as they are taking back payments, dh earns 25000 a year!! i didn;t work for a year (it's hard!) we are still only getting that amount even though we have daugher that is 18 months

we have been paying this monety that we "owe" to them for over two years now and still owe them a grand!!

i would never, ever, ever get another job where i would put myself in the situation of relying on them to help me with childcare, if they continue to do it in a way where this can happen

i now clean and my mum has them after school, i could prob be soing something that could hold me in a better position for when dd starts school but then there are still the holidays

oooh feel better after a rabt

yellowrose · 15/05/2007 22:30

is Xenia the only poster on MN who is brave enough to admit that part of the reason she works is that she gets bored looking after her children ? i have friends who have said as much (mainly indirectly) but i rarely see it on these kinds of threads.

Flamesparrow · 15/05/2007 22:31

I've seen it lots!

tinkerbellie · 15/05/2007 22:33

apparently any other job wouldn't involve typing after a glass of wine!!

sazzybee · 15/05/2007 22:52

Many of us would like to have the luxury to choose to be a SAHM or a WOHM. That's the difference

expatinscotland · 15/05/2007 23:53

'We need my sister on this thread. She is the most accomplished person I've ever met at having the hardest life. '

Oh, Xenia, I reckon I could tie her in that sweepstakes.

Judy1234 · 16/05/2007 07:20

Some of her best lines were when my poor brother had 2 children under 2 and wasn't getting much sleep and her children a bit older they were always more ill and sleeping worse than his.

RedFraggle · 16/05/2007 08:31

Haven't read all the thread but the childcare vouchers she is talking about are deducted from her salary - she is not "Given" them. I know this as my DH and I do the same. You get the government to take the money out of your wages before the money is taxed and paid as vouchers. This is a tax break not a tax credit - you have to be earning the money in order to "pay" for the vouchers.

amidaiwish · 16/05/2007 08:41

right, i am self employed
how can i get these childcare vouchers? any ideas??

Judy1234 · 16/05/2007 08:44

I thought the system was that some employers if they chose (and most don't) could give child care vouchers which were then tax free and you use them at approved child care of various forms. Most employees do not have employers prepared to give them so you're lucky if they do - tends to be bigger companies. If you are self employed then you don't have an employer and you certainly don't get them. Apart from that special scheme there is no tax deductibility for childcare costs which are seen as much as a lifestyle choice as looking after an expensive yacht or cat.

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