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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

feeling that tax credits are totally biased towards working mums?

572 replies

Dragonhart · 13/05/2007 15:23

I am a SAHM and I get the min working tax credit as my DH earns just over the min for getting more help.

I was talking to my friend yesterday who works 4 days a week as a teacher (their combined salaries are just below the top of the band of getting any money) and I was saying what I got now we have two children. I get just over £40 plus about £40 baby element. When dd is 1 and I have two under 3 I will get £40.

She told me that she gets about £160 a months towards childcare in vouchers on her and her husbands paypacket (not sure if this is classed as tax credit?) and £75 permonth for her only ds in tax credits.

I am not making a coment about whether or not people choose to work as I stongly believe that everyone should have a choice to do what is right for them.

I just think that I should be supported in the same way as working mums. Surely I am my childrens 'childcare'?

OP posts:
Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:15

becky - it didn't happen in my home (English family in 1970s) and it didn't happen in my partner's home (French family in 1970s).

Here in France all parents have to follow their children's schoolwork very closely ie all parents will have done homework with their children on those issues. So they will have been "forced" to confront them with their children in a neutral fashion.

beckybrastraps · 15/05/2007 14:26

But how could the government make that happen. How could the government make parents sit down with their children and go over what they have learned in PSHE?

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:33

Becky - you have a system like you do here where parents have to sign a day book AND a child's exercise books when they have done their homework with them. I quite like the system as it ensures parents know what's going on at school, not just at the end of term at report time.

chocolatedot · 15/05/2007 14:38

Anna888, I find it incredible that you suggest that no financial assistance should be given to women who choose to work outside the home. I take it you include subsidised childcare, tax credits etc in this 'assistance'. Working women pay tax, create jobs in childcare and obviiously contribute vital skills to the work place. Without some financial assistance, work for many would be uneconomic particularly when children are at preschool age.

It's got nothing to do with discrimination, simply about creating something resembling a level playing field so mothers have the asme opportunities as others in the workplace to continue their careers should they desire. I'm a very happy SAHM and I find some of the attitudes on here so damn depressing. If it were up to me, all child care would be tax deductible as are other business expenses.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:41

chocolatedot - no, that's not what I said.

I think that women who work outside the home AND women who stay at home deserve the same treatment.

Either childcare is tax deductible for both or neither.

expatinscotland · 15/05/2007 14:42

'chose' to work outside the home. Chose.

Climb down from your ivory tower for a moment if you dare, Anna, because in the real world, many women have to work to live.

It's not a choice.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:44

expat - where on earth did I say "choose"?????

chocolatedot · 15/05/2007 14:56

Why would a SAHM want tax deductible childcare? (unless of course her child is disabled or has special needs). The point is that childcare should be a deductible business expense as it is a necessary expense that a mother faces if she works.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:59

chocolatedot - I should think that a hell of a lot of 24/7 SAHMs might like some tax-deductible childcare so they can go to the doctor, dentist, hairdresser or just out for a walk on their own. 24/7 unpaid labour is quite tough.

NKF · 15/05/2007 14:59

I'm assuming a stay at home mother who wants tax credits is really just asking to be paid to look after her children.

NKF · 15/05/2007 15:01

I assumed that the stay at home mother didn't get tax breaks because she didn't pay tax. Is that incorrect?

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 15:03

NKF - so you don't think that a SAHM deserves a few hours without her children from time to time to get on with things in peace? Whereas a woman who goes out to paid work does deserve help to get on with her life?

NKF · 15/05/2007 15:05

Well, it's not a matter of what people deserve is it? Or is it? Isn't it about what tax benefits you've earned by paying tax?

chocolatedot · 15/05/2007 15:08

Well I for one certainly don't think that taxpaer should fund childcare so I can go the hairdresser or whatever. After all women who work outside the home don't get any time to themselves and certainly none funded by the taxpayer. They are either at work (paying taxes, creating jobs, contributing their knowledge or skills) or presumably at home looking after their children. Not too much 'me time' for them unfortunately. As I say, I'm a SAHM but I have worked full time in the past so know what it's like.

Eleusis · 15/05/2007 15:08

I don't want the UK to be like France. I don't think it''s appropriate to discuss sex at the dinner table with 9 year olds. No thank you. Hey, if you are happy with then okay that's your choice. But, I certainly don't want it here in the UK.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 15:10

NKF - there are two, distinct, issues:

  • how we treat women with children
  • the financial and social mechanisms used

Tax credits to the working woman are only one possible mechanism of many. But the fact is, they benefit working women to the detriment of non-working women.

Child benefit is universal.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 15:11

chocolatedot - WOHM are earning money for themselves... that's time for themselves...

Eleusis · 15/05/2007 15:12

I think that people deserve what they earn. And I'm sick and tired of people going round feeling sorry for themselves. No one owes you (or me) anything. If you want something in life, go out and make it happen.

Of course, some people are unable to work (war veterines, sick, elderly, children, etc.) and I'm happy to contribute to a welfare state for them. But, I am not happy to contribute to thos who simply prefer not to work.

NKF · 15/05/2007 15:12

I don't see how tax benefits for the working mother is to the detriment of non working mothers. If the working mother didn't get the tax breaks, the non working wouldnt' be any better off.

NKF · 15/05/2007 15:13

Some women who work are doing a great deal more than just earning money for themselves.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 15:15

NKF - come on, you're quite intelligent, work it out.

If you give a tax break to a working woman in a two-parent, dual income family for childcare, that is a government subsidy to her family that a family with one wage earner doesn't receive. So dual income families are even better off than single income families thanks to a government subsidy, because the SAHM in the single-income family doesn't receive that subsidy. It's grotesque.

franca70 · 15/05/2007 15:16

I do believe in subsidized childcare. Why any kind of family (single parent, teenage mother, working part time, full time, no working WHATEVER) shouldn't have access to something that can help you in your parenting job (from full time childcare to one morning)? In developed economies large families are disappearing. I don't believe that parents and toddlers group can be the only thing on offer for sahparents, who don't have family/friends around.
Sorry, I have a thousands things to say, but it's school run time

Aloha · 15/05/2007 15:17

Except they aren't better off, as the working couple are merely being recompensed for some of their childcare costs.

NKF · 15/05/2007 15:17

She's paying tax that creates the fund out of which the subsidy is paid. The non working mother isn't. You sound quite intelligent too.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 15:19

NKF - how would you feel if the government said - hey, state school is free for parents in dual income households, but where there is a SAHM (or P) you have to pay, because actually you could be educating your child at home?

Same injustice as not subsidising childcare equally for all parents.