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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

feeling that tax credits are totally biased towards working mums?

572 replies

Dragonhart · 13/05/2007 15:23

I am a SAHM and I get the min working tax credit as my DH earns just over the min for getting more help.

I was talking to my friend yesterday who works 4 days a week as a teacher (their combined salaries are just below the top of the band of getting any money) and I was saying what I got now we have two children. I get just over £40 plus about £40 baby element. When dd is 1 and I have two under 3 I will get £40.

She told me that she gets about £160 a months towards childcare in vouchers on her and her husbands paypacket (not sure if this is classed as tax credit?) and £75 permonth for her only ds in tax credits.

I am not making a coment about whether or not people choose to work as I stongly believe that everyone should have a choice to do what is right for them.

I just think that I should be supported in the same way as working mums. Surely I am my childrens 'childcare'?

OP posts:
Eleusis · 15/05/2007 13:31

YR is inciting a riot. She has nothing better to do.

persephonesnape · 15/05/2007 13:35

way to attempt to divert attention away from your own comments yellowrose.

I've paid a lot of tax as well in my twenty year pretty low-paid office job and I'd be happy if some of that money went to help your stereotypical teenage single mum on a council estate get a decent education behind her and get another poxy office job if it meant that she was setting a good example o her child by working. some people don't ahve teh luxury of staying at home, because they're not supported by a man and they're labelled 'scroungers'. Part of living in a decent society, to me is being able to contribute to help others less fortunate than yourself. Its wonderful that you have the ability and options to be able to be self employed, arther than rotting away in an office. i can't say i live and breathe and enjoy my low-rent office job, but i do it so that my children can see me working rather than sitting at home watching daytime tv.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 13:39

I too have paid a lot of tax in my time.

I don't think that tax-deductible childcare is the way forward, as it is far too discriminatory towards those families who choose to live on one salary and bring their children up themselves rather than sub-contracting. People ought to have a free choice in that matter. It would also have an even more disastrous effect on house price inflation.

yellowrose · 15/05/2007 13:39

sazzybee - people should reap back what they work hard for - so as a high tax payer in my previous career i deserve to reap back quite a lot of what i have paid in taxes. instead i am faced with crap public services, crap maternity leave, and crap rights for women of small children. in fact our govt. doesn't give a toss about families.

allgonebellyup · 15/05/2007 13:42

Just wanted to add, i am looking for part time work (2 days a week) and as a newly single parent im finding that i would get paid more tax credits for working only 20hrs a week than i would get as part of my benefits if i claimed as a single parent..
so in that respect it is great as it encourages me to work rather than claim benefits and not work at all.
(dont need to claim childcare as i work as a nanny and take my child with me)

amidaiwish · 15/05/2007 13:43

Anna, to answer your qu (sorry kids at home today so not online much!)

"do you think that it is the business of government to decide on the electorate's behalf whether mothers of young children should be working or not? "

i don't think it is their business to DECIDE but i do think it is their business to make it POSSIBLE if that is what the mothers want too.

sazzybee · 15/05/2007 13:46

yellowrose - you seem to have confused the welfare state with an investment fund. The whole point of the welfare state is to help those who are least able to help themselves.

OrmIrian · 15/05/2007 13:48

When it comes to what you 'reap back', it should be dependent on what you need, not what you've contributed.

And as for the government not supporting families? Does your imaginary teenage mum not count as a family then?

yellowrose · 15/05/2007 13:49

well, it should be more like an investmnet fund, in my opinion, esp. when it comes to families.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 13:49

amidaiwish - OK

So you believe it is the business of governments to enable women to work outside the home if they so wish.

Is it also the business of governments to enable women to stay at home with their children if they so wish?

yellowrose · 15/05/2007 13:50

the teenage mum isn't imaginary, we have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe, go and look at the statistics. it is there i am not making it up.

OrmIrian · 15/05/2007 13:51

yw - I know. There are plenty in this town. But the point is does she and her child not count as a family?

Judy1234 · 15/05/2007 13:52

allgone, a lot of single mothers on fairly low pay rates find they can work I think up to 16 hiours a week but not more or else it's not worthwhile. I can't remember the reason for that. If you earn quitea bit more like me then it's much better to work even if you're paying 41% tax as I do and have no tax credits, benefits etc at all.

There's nothing to stop people picking a country that suits their politics and moving there is there in many cases? You could pick paying 60% tax in Estonia and have very cheap child care or a flat tax regime in Eastern Europe paying 15% tax and very little back from the state or the land of the free with very few maternity rights etc etc. Or I suppose you could try to change the UK to what you think is right, but that's a much harder battle.

In general I think Blair has got it right that parents' self esteem and life etc is enhanced by work (leaving aside the rich stay at home mothers with men to support them) and that making it worthwhile to work over living on benefits is a good thing.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 13:54

OrmIrian - yes, the teenage girl and baby are a family.

I think the reason YR is angry is that the government is failing to prevent teenage pregnancy and families with teenage mothers cost hard-working high-tax-paying people a lot of money. This makes me very angry (and let me not get started on immigrants who've never worked a day in their life with multiple wives and children all paid for with benefits).

yellowrose · 15/05/2007 13:56

they do count, but our system ACTIVELY encourages them, isn't there a scheme that pays them £5,000 to go back to school or something ? how many of them will use it to go back to school once they have a baby ?

now take away the benfits and encouragemnet ADD decent sex education in the family/home and the preg. rate will drop, al la Holland where the legal age for sex is as low as 12, but teenage pregnancies are unheard of.

i don't want a system that encourages unnecessary, unwanted pregnancies.

Judy1234 · 15/05/2007 14:00

...mmm but we need those girls' babies actually as a nation may be.

beckybrastraps · 15/05/2007 14:01

How can the government prevent teenage pregnancies? What would you do if you were the Health/Education Secretary?

persephonesnape · 15/05/2007 14:07

'now take away the benfits and encouragemnet ADD decent sex education in the family/home and the preg. rate will drop'

yes, because all the teenage girls who already have babies will die of starvation or STD's when they end up on the game.

what are you going to do, take their babies away from them and give them to nice middle class couples who can't conceive?

I'm sure there are brilliant, competent, hard working teenage single mothers, just as there are feckless, sponging, job shy older mothers. Are teeenage pregnancies where the guy sticks around ok with you yr? are they acceptable family units? I hate the demonisation of single parents, particulary girls in their teens. two to tango, but no one has said a word about the guys who f*ck and run.

amidaiwish · 15/05/2007 14:07

So you believe it is the business of governments to enable women to work outside the home if they so wish. YES

Is it also the business of governments to enable women to stay at home with their children if they so wish? NOT REALLY - that should be the women's/family choice, if they can afford it. The economy/labour market needs women to do some kind of work outside the home. esp intelligent, educated, skilled women.

OrmIrian · 15/05/2007 14:07

ITA that better sex education...better education generally...would be a good idea. Not sure that removing benefits would be such a great one though. Once a child is born it deserves enough to live on and a roof over it's head and sometimes the state might have to provide. What happens in Holland if, inspite of good sex education etc, a teenage girl does have a baby? Do they just kick her out and say 'sorry, your problem, we can't help'?

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:08

becky - educate, educate, educate.

Here in France my stepsons (12, 9) know everything about sex, conception and contraception and have done for years. School takes the lead and parents follow. We have perfectly open conversations about those things, no-one's embarrassed. There is only one way to getting people to behave in their own best interests, and that is ensuring they are properly informed of the consequences of every course of action they may follow.

Anna8888 · 15/05/2007 14:10

amidaiwish - you are of course entitled to your opinion, but personally I don't share it.

I think it is not the business of governments either to encourage or discourage mothers of small children to work outside the home. There should, to my mind, be no discrimination either way, and therefore no financial assistance to one group that is not afforded to the other.

J20BABY · 15/05/2007 14:11

haven't read the whole thread, but i work 8 hours a week, and am only allowed to keep £20 of that on top of my benefits, if i worked anything up to 16 hours i'd only get to keep £20, if i worked over 16 hours, i think i'd be better of by about £30 extra a week, and so its not really worth me doing.

do not have an opinion on the thread, just thought i'd let you know

beckybrastraps · 15/05/2007 14:11

It is done to death in schools. Seriously. Children are fully informed.

By education you must mean outside school. And I don't know how yuo would do that. How would you do that?

"We have perfectly open conversations about those things, no-one's embarrassed."

How does the government make that happen in homes?

beckybrastraps · 15/05/2007 14:12

And define 'better' sex ed.