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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu: landlord taking us to court

41 replies

Awfullyconfusedwhat · 15/04/2018 23:07

Hello
We moved out of a rental property before Christmas. It was a stressful move ending in the landlord screaming at us in front of our 3 children in the snow , " get out of my house" we ended up leaving some stuff in the garage, a bed and a wardrobe because we didn't have enough time to remove it . We asked the letting agent to send us a bill for the 10 days rent that we owed, we didn't receive it.we agreed to the landlord taking all our deposit because we realise that we should have cleaned it. We lived in the house for 3.5 years and always paid the rent on time and kept the house clean up untol this point.
Cut to March and we recieve a money claims online court summons ( no warning )
Landlord claims we haven't paid rent ( we had ) and they needed to replace carpets, and redecorate.They are trying to claim for £7k in total.
When we moved in 3 years ago , the carpets were described as soiled and threadbare and the walls scuffed.
No repairs were undertaken in the time we lived there ( I have emails asking for repairs and the landlord refused to do anything )
I find it quite incredulous that no attempt to contact us was made prior to this court action, no acknowledgement is made that they already have our full deposit.
Aibu to think that what they are claiming for is either betterment or claiming fir something that has been done through deposit ( i.e the house was dirty but it did not cost £1300 to clean )
Nothing was ever said in our quarterly inspections about the state of the property
Sorry for length, just so upset and amazed that somebody would put us through this

OP posts:
FASH84 · 15/04/2018 23:11

Get some legal advice, do you have any photos of the property when you moved in? Was there a letting agent who can vouch for the condition of the property? Exactly what are they charging 7k for (some will be court costs)? Leaving furniture won't have helped as it will have cost them to remove and dispose, but it does sound high.

TheQueenOfWands · 15/04/2018 23:13

Did you agree in writing to them keeping your deposit?

FASH84 · 15/04/2018 23:14

I'd imagine some of it will be the ten days rent, late payment fees, charges for the legal/court process and the cleaning, but you're within your rights to ask for a statement of the costs broken down

FreshPacket · 15/04/2018 23:18

If nothing was said about the state of the property in any of your inspections they will be laughed out of court. If it's not documented it didn't happen.

Legally a landlord can't charge for normal wear and tear, and even if they do it has to meet a strict apportionment calculator. This means if a carpet was new and expected to last 10 years, then after 3.5 years you'd have to pay less than half the cost of a new carpet. They can't charge you unless they can prove carpet is beyond repair and beyond reasonable use wear and tear.

Your landlord is wasting his money. Sorry you're having such a stressful time of it though.

Can you prove through bank statements that you've paid rent? Can you prove you requested the invoice for 10 days at the end? If you can you're laughing.

StaplesCorner · 15/04/2018 23:19

Get to the nearest CAB this week - they will help you to sort this out, sounds like they are going to try to take you for everything they can. Why did the original landlord:tenant relationship break down?

Jamiefraserskilt · 15/04/2018 23:22

Your friend is you emails and letters between you, The agent and the landlord including

  1. The request for a final rent invoice
  2. The inventory on your arrival
  3. The records of quarterly inspections.

It would be normal for a ll to redecorate and carry out maintenance on a property occupied for so long.
Sounds like they have a beef with the agent and you are getting the grief.
Dig out all the records and ensure you prepare well and have an answer to every single complaint backed up by written correspondence.
Check your contract closely to see if you had a clause mentioning redecorating requirements. This may be an issue but it depends on notice you were given.
Build a list of maintenance requests that resulted in no action taken.
Visit citizens advice and see where you stand, legally.
Good luck!

mintkat · 15/04/2018 23:25

Sounds like an illegal eviction and harassment and like your deposit wasn’t correctly protected. Talk to CAB and Shelter asap for some advice.

Marmablade · 15/04/2018 23:27

We were offered mediation twice (he refused) before it went to court so along with all the advice above make sure you tick yes to the mediation box.

MatildaTheCat · 15/04/2018 23:32

Do you have a breakdown of the claim? For carpets and decor I’d be very surprised if you were charged anything beyond the deposit. You are entitled to see evidence of the deposit being spent on cleaning if that’s what you’ve been told.

Is there a backstory here regarding your leaving the property? It sounds as if you overran your notice period. Were you being evicted? Was there any material damage to the property?

I’m not being difficult but it sounds complicated. If it’s exactly as you describe I don’t see you have much to worry about but definitely seek legal advice.

zenasfuck · 15/04/2018 23:32

Where was your deposit held ? He can’t just decide to keep it - it has to be approved by a tenancy deposit scheme and if the money wasn’t held in one of these then he is in big trouble himself

Original poster
Awfullyconfusedwhat · 15/04/2018 23:35

But doesn't mediation mean that we have to agree to them taking more money ?
The claim lists £2500 new carpets ( when a carpet fitter came around the week before we left to fit new carpets for all rooms despite the fact that the landlord hadn't been in the property)
£2500 Total £431 court costs and £300 rent which we paid when we got the court papers through
Plus she is claiming for stuff that has already been covered by the deposit with no acknowledgement that she has the deposit ( we have written proof from letting agents )
It also states we begged to stay in the property when all we did was to ask to stay until our house completed otherwise we would be homeless
To stand shouting at us in front of our children was hideous but we don't have proof of that.
But that is why we left in more of a hurry because we felt harrassed

OP posts:
Original poster
Awfullyconfusedwhat · 15/04/2018 23:37

We didn't overrun our notice period, we just stayed an hour beyond midday ( the time we agreed to give the key over) because it was snowing on the day we moved

OP posts:
BritInUS1 · 15/04/2018 23:38

You need to get proper legal advice

HMC2000 · 15/04/2018 23:45

Give Shelter a call. They're not just for homelessness, and were incredibly helpful when we were in a dispute with the agency about moving out of our flat. Also, as others have said, the deposit should be in a deposit scheme, so that the landlord can't just take it without agreement over what is owed. If that's not the case, then he is already breaking the law. If you have copies of all your communications, and can put together a timeline, then it sounds as if you would have nothing to fear at all from the court action. It may just be scare tactics.

snowbear66 · 15/04/2018 23:48

Do you have any family photos in the house with the background showing the rooms, and state of repair?
Did you have a check in procedure from an agency that made notes on the property?
You are allowed 3 years wear and tear, he would not be able to completely refurb the house and charge you, he sounds like he's trying it on as he kept your deposit which should have covered this .adequately.
If it's small claims court he took you to then court costs would be max £450 so sounds like he's charging you a hell of a lot for a complete refurbishment which is not on

Carouselfish · 15/04/2018 23:52

OP, just checking - your landlady isn't a Spanish landowner is she?

CrazyDaze1 · 16/04/2018 00:44

I strongly suggest that you post your query on the www.landlordzone.co.uk forums (Residential Letting Questions).

It sounds like your former LL is an amateur and has quite possibly not followed the correct procedures in how your tenancy has ended. She could be in a lot of trouble if your deposit was not registered properly with one of the official deposit agencies for instance (you can claim up to 3 times the deposit if she didn’t follow the correct procedure).

The posters on the Landlordzone forum are very knowledgeable about all aspects of tenancy law and can advise you.

Another good place for legal info is the www.legalbeagles.info website (Housing, Property and Neighbours Forum). Free legal advice from solicitors and barristers.

As already mentioned, Shelter and the Citizens Advice Bureau are also with contacting. Tbh I think the LL is trying it on and definitely attempting ‘betterment’ (which is why the Deposit Protection schemes were originally set up to protect tenants against rogue landlords). Where is her proof of the cleaning costs? Did she really bring in a professional cleaning company and if so, she is going to need to provide an official VAT receipt.

Good Luck!

Pimpernell182 · 16/04/2018 00:51

YY to shelter. So very helpful to me with a landlord who tried his best to screw me over in a similar situation. Do you have an inventory signed by both of you from when you moved in? Does she? In the absence of this, she is literally powerless to make you pay for repairs regardless of what you did or didn't do. The law is very much on your side. She sounds like an amateur. Educate yourself on the law and fight back. I did and I won. Good luck op.

Pimpernell182 · 16/04/2018 00:55

Also was your deposit registered with one of the protection schemes? You can contact them to check (online is usually possible) all you need is postcode / date you moved in / name. If pp are right and she did not protect, and maintain protection for, your deposit then you can claim against her for a hefty fine. I believe it's something like 3x value of the sum held. So even if you think she did, it's so worth checking out. All of this is a hassle you shouldn't have to deal with but that's the nature of dealing with these scum bags!

desertmum · 16/04/2018 07:08

Do you have a copy of the inventory when you moved in and does it have photos? The LL has to be able to prove his claims re carpets etc. If he can't provide photos of the start of the tenancy showing clean carpets in good condition and then photos at the end showing damage he is on a sticky wicket.

Did you rent through an agent? If so ask them for copies of the inspection visits if you don't already have them.

As a previous poster said your emails asking for repairs will be your best friend. Go to CAB.

Good luck.

desertmum · 16/04/2018 07:08

Also meant to say, don't cave in. He can't make baseless claims against you and get new carpets.

gingertigercat · 16/04/2018 07:35

Have you responded to the proceedings yet op?

Original poster
Awfullyconfusedwhat · 16/04/2018 07:39

Yup
We have responded with a defence. We have got our notice of allocations and I even have an email from the letting agents stating that the "cleaning came to less than the invoice has shown" which is the amount of the deposit.
The deposit was protected but I still can't get over the fact that they are willing to pay £450 in court costs in a case which seems like total betterment.
We have an original inventory signed by us dated the year before we moved in ( so the carpets were even old then )
Stating that they are threadbare and soiled.

OP posts:
Original poster
Awfullyconfusedwhat · 16/04/2018 07:42

What makes me even angrier is that they are stating we "begged " to stay in the property an extra 10'days. We could have stayed past our section 21 notice but decided to do it in a reasonable manner. We had asked them twice if we could stay 8 days past the date of the notice , at first they said no and secondly they agreed to the date as long as we let the carpet fitters in to measure for a new carpet. So I don't really understand how they are trying to claim for the old carpets to be cleaned when they got new ones anyway !

OP posts:
Highhorse1981 · 16/04/2018 07:44

A landlord is unlikely to go to the lengths of taking someone to court unless you left that property is a seriously shitty state.