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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To stop the Dcs seeing EXH even though it will upset him

26 replies

BushBabyCat · 15/04/2018 21:45

I have 5 DCs with EXH the youngest is 5 the eldest is 14.
EXH was emotionally controlling and manipulative when we were together he was also very lazy and i had to be the main breadwinner and look after the DCs and do all the housework and in the end I got fed up and we split up 4 years ago.

For the first 6 months EXH was disney dad with the kids, he saw them EOWeekend and one evening a week and he would take them out for treats all the time and spoil them and had no rules.
DS1 (now 14) took the break up very hard he idolised his dad and he blamed me for the break up.

Gradually EXH became less interested in taking the DCs places and DD1 (now 12) and the younger DCs said that they just spent all their time at his house watching him and DS1 play video games and bad mouth me. DD1 was expected to sort the younger DCs out and put them to bed and EXH would either ignore the younger DCs or shout at them if they disturbed their videogame.

My relationship with DS1 was deteriorating. He would often shout and swear at me and he started to misbehave in school as well. DD1 was also struggling with some anxiety issues. Eventually I managed to get me and the older two DCs some family counselling and some one on one counselling sessions for DS1.

Gradually things started to change and DS1 started to behave better and his relationship with me and his siblings started to improve. We still have our odd moments but in the last 6 months we are all in a much better place.

Just before Christmas DS1 wanted to start and activity which he needs to attend every Saturday. However EXH wont allow any of the DCS to activities/parties etc on his contact time. I think DS1 was hoping that because he is EXHs favourite EXH might allow him to go but EXH has said no. EXH promised that he would take the kids to do fun things instead but he never ends up taking them.

So now DS1 doesn't want to go to his dads and DD1 has never really liked going and the younger ones say they dont want to go either. I have been encouraging the DCs to go and giving them ideas for games they can play while there and packing them extra treats to have at EXs house but every week they say they don't want to go. But we have a court order in place so I keep encouraging them to see him.

On Friday they were due to go to EXs house but they were all kicking up a fuss and saying that they didn't want to EX pulled up in the car and the younger ones got in as usual but DS1 wouldn't leave his room and DD1 was crying saying she didn't want to go. Eventually EX got out the car shouting at them to get in. DD1 got in the car but DS1 kept refusing till EX said that if DS1 went with him he could go to his activity. EX promised he would take him and DS1 then got in the car.

Today EX brought them back 4 hours early and he was in a foul mood swearing and shouting. DS1 slammed out the car saying he was never going there again and stormed upstairs. The younger ones were crying and they all came running into the house and DD1 was having a panic attack in the back of the car. I went out and I was trying to help DD1 calm down but EX was shouting saying she was faking it and if she didn't get out he would dive off with us still in the back. In the end I just unbuckled her and carried her inside because she was never going to calm down with EX acting like that. As soon as she was out he drove off.

Eventually everyone calmed down and they told me that half an hour before the activity was going to start EX decided he wasn't taking DS1 after all. DS1 was ready to go and so they had a massive argument and DS1 went to his room. Later EX apologised and promised to have a fresh start and take the kids to their favourite activity and for a meal out on Sunday. However on Sunday he waited till all the kids were in the car and then told them that actually he was taking them to meet his friend first. So they ended up at this friends house watching EX and the friend play videogames for couple of hours. The kids started making a fuss as they were bored and hungry and the friend was getting annoyed by them making noise all the time. So EX made them all get back in the car and was ranting and raving at them. He then stopped at the MCDonalds drive through and ordered all the DCs the same Happy meal without asking what they wanted. So all the kids started making a fuss again and EX started shouting then DS1 started arguing back. So EX started saying that it was all my fault and I have made his kids into brats and that he was going to go to court and have them live with him full time. DD1 started getting upset and EX started shouting at her more to get her to stop. So then she started having a panic attack and he couldn't get any of the DCs to calm down so he brought them home early as a punishment.

Tonight all of the DCs have begged not to have to go back to their dads again I have said that they should wait and sleep on it and see how they feel in the morning. However I don't want them to go back either. But we have a court order in place saying when he has them and if they don't go he will take me to court and probably try to get more time with them, and if I don't send them he will make sure he punishes me in court for breaking the contact order. Plus EXH will take it really badly and I am worried about how he will react. When we split he kept threatening to hurt himself and one night he drank so much that he had to go to hospital which he said he did because he couldn't handle us splitting.

My parents think I should carry on making the DCs see him because EX will be upset if they don't see him and court will be more stressful for the kids than him shouting and missing activities and that its not worth causing so much stress and upset.

So I'm stuck and I have no idea what to do for the best

OP posts:

Avasarala · 15/04/2018 21:54

Your kids are miserable. And They are missing out on a childhood. They're in therapy, they aren't getting to explore new activities or clubs. And in exchange for all that, they get a dad who isn't interested. It would be different if they were getting time with a living parent, but they are not.

Your oldest son is old enough to voice his opinion to a court. Your daughter probably is too.

Why can't you go back to court and see what can be done?

You need to take your children's feelings seriously - they have a right to their feelings and a right to make their own choices, especially at that age. They should notnbe forced to do this If you have any other option- like going back to court.

If this carries on then your younger children will end up in therapy as well.

Who gives a f* if it upsets your ex. This isn't about him. It's about your children. If he starts saying he's going to hurt himself, then you do not engage. You call the police and ask for a welfare check, but you do not respond to him at all. If he's serious, they will get him help. If he's not, he'll realise pretty quickly that it's not going to work.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 15/04/2018 21:54

How much of this is documented? I am having similar problems although we are earlier along -what has happened here will happen to us, I think, sooner rather than later.

I would say at 14 he gets to make his own decision and I would support the eldest not going. The 12 year old is on the cusp of being able to make her own decisions really, but if she is having panic attacks, I would take her to the GP, get it documented and ask for help in dealing with them. I would then say she can make her own decisions.

please do not fear court - the children are old enough to make their voices heard. He is not going to get more time and despite what will be inevitable manipulation, CAFCASS are skilled in weeding it out.

I am sorry you are going through this. It is really not fair on all of you.

Avasarala · 15/04/2018 21:54

*loving parent

Chickychoccyegg · 15/04/2018 22:02

I think I'd be getting advice about going back to court - the children are very unhappy, your exh sounds horrible, I wouldn't force them to go to his again after that weekend, he says he wants more time with them but ignores them when they're with him , hopefully you can get this situation sorted(and don't listen to him threatening to hurt himself it's emotional blackmail)

Original poster

BushBabyCat · 15/04/2018 22:03

Some of it will be documented through counselling and some of the things we have had to tell the schools but I don't know how much of it will help.

The older two might be old enough to have an opinion but the younger ones aren't and DD1 will feel guilty if the little ones have to go to EX by themselves so she will probably end up going as well even though she doesn't want to.

OP posts:

Quartz2208 · 15/04/2018 22:05

get some proper legal advice and take it from there

Avasarala · 15/04/2018 22:06

You have a choice to make here. Either keep making excuses to not take action and continue as things are, or face up the the nightmare tour children are in and get back to court.

It doesn't matter how you feel or how tour we feels - what matters is the mental health of your children. You have counsellors who can speak for you, a GP who will also know about the panic attacks, and two children old enough to tell the court how the younger ones are treated.

You're the only parent they have here who can help them, so help them.

Pinkvoid · 15/04/2018 22:07

You need to speak to a solicitor and find out what your rights are RE preventing access. It sounds to me as though you have a good case for reducing contact to supervised contact only. He is neglectful and making your DC miserable. Get legal advice.

Starlight2345 · 15/04/2018 22:09

I would go and get legal advice . The oldest 2 I would support . The younger ones more complicated.

Keep any evidence. I agree take Dd to gp . I doubt they will do anything . I took Ds took gp for panic attacks they were generally useless but it is documented

MyMushroomsInATimeSlip · 15/04/2018 22:11

What an awful situation. It's sounds like you are scared to do something unless it makes the situation worse. However, your children need your support and to know that you are listening to them and will do everything you can to stop this happening. They already know that one parent cannot put them first or care for their needs. They need to know that you do.

C0untDucku1a · 15/04/2018 22:12

I agree. Get legal advice. Document everything.

ivenoideawhatimdoing · 15/04/2018 22:14

I would speak to a solicitor OP, before you do anything else. If they do not want to do, you can't make them. However, a court will probably enforce the younger two have to go if they are under a certain age.

But him getting out of his car and shouting to get in at your house? Not on my fucking nelly. If he comes and throws his weight around; call the police. Threatening to drive off with you in the back seat? Wtf?!

LannieDuck · 15/04/2018 22:18

You need to have this conversation with your solicitor. Find out what options (if any) your children have.

JamPasty · 15/04/2018 22:19

Get legal advice ASAP, but for god's sake ignore you're parents' utterly shite advise to send the kids to ExH just to keep Ex happy - what about the kids feelings?!!

cestlavielife · 15/04/2018 22:19

Your ex being upset is not your issue.

Your dc are your issue.

Get advice go back to court. Speak to the therapist.
Tell the older 2 they need to be honest with the therapist.
The older will have their views taken into account.

They need to be ready to say whatg has happened. Buying the wrong McDonald's is not a big deal per se but.. the other stuff and all combined is Awful.

cestlavielife · 15/04/2018 22:21

And if ex makes threats to hurt himself you get the dc away and call 999 .
Get it in text or recorded tho.

Rainbowqueeen · 15/04/2018 22:28

Contact is supposed to be in the best interests of the children.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart, that the contact your kids are havi is in the best interests of your kids. Your ex clearly doesn't care if they are upset so why should anyone care about his feelings

I would go back to court and I would be gathering evidence in the meantime from GPs, counsellors and school.

Outnotdown · 15/04/2018 22:31

I agree with pp, get your daughter to the gp, and make sure the gp records the details surrounding the panic attack.

Call social services and tell them you need advice because you're worried about your kids well being, and make sure they make a note of it.

Get as many reports as you can from professionals, and then get into court and fight!

Your kids need you to protect them. Sorry you are in this shit situation. Good luck

Leeds2 · 15/04/2018 22:37

Agree with PPs; go and get legal advice asap. It sounds as though continued contact will not help your DC in any way whatsoever. Perhaps arrange contact for the youngest three where it can be supervised.

lattewith3shotsplease · 15/04/2018 22:40

OP,
Ignore your parents advice.

Your poor children sound utterly traumatised .
Do not force the children to go.

Gemini69 · 15/04/2018 22:42

Let him take you back to Court.. let your older children tell the Court why they do not want to go with him....

CaptainNelson · 15/04/2018 22:43

Agree with all PPs. Ignore your parents and your - as you yourself have said - controlling Ex, who is using the self-harm thing to get at you. This is seriously affecting your kids and you're working really hard to help them, don't let the Ex mess that up.
Get legal advice, and see whether you can at least put off next weekend's visit, or reduce it, in the meantime. I know legally he has a right, but while you're getting the legal situation sorted, see if you can use the disaster that's just happened to get him to agree to less time or something next weekend (and if necessary, record the conversation).
Good luck OP - I feel for you but I'm sure you and your kids will come out on top, you seem really strong about this

Wallywobbles · 15/04/2018 22:45

My kids stopped going at 8&9. I went to court. Got an emergency hearing. Said that the DC wanted to be heard. They went to court about a week later with their own lawyer. Closed hearing just them and the judge. They then had to see him in a visitors centre for 4 months. At the end of that time they chose not to continue.

2 years later we went back to court. Once again the girls had an interview with the judge. A few months later it was our turn. He has lost his parental rights.

It can be a slow process but it is worth starting.

Original poster

BushBabyCat · 15/04/2018 23:34

Thank you for replying.
The younger 3 are 5,7 and 8 so I don't think their opinion would be taken into account.

Usually visits to their dad aren't this bad. They just come home saying they were bored and he shouted at them for making loud noises or disturbing the video game in some way. But Ex does order them food and they beds and clothes and water and he doesn't hit them so I don't really think I could say he is neglectful as such.

You are correct though I probably do need to get in contact with a solicitor.

OP posts:

ziggzagg · 15/04/2018 23:46

@BushBabyCat I'm a social worker and I can tell you we take into account any child's views as long as they are able to express them clearly and there is no evidence of coaching them to say things! I've written reports for children who are 4 who have told me about emotional abuse and that they don't want to see their dad because he scares them! These were backed up by nursery reports demonstrating a change in the child's presentation so it would be worth CAFCASS maybe interviewing all the children and take it from there. Good luck your ex sounds vile!

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