To ask how to tackle this with ex’s partner?

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

Long story short, ex is an idiot. Girlfriend he is currently with has been very off/on over 5 years. They are engaged but no sign of wedding. They have moved in with each other twice prior to moving in together for the third time late last year. I am a model ex - no interest in her whatsoever. Never met her, don’t bad mouth her or the ex and never mess about with contact.

She seems to hate my children. She seems to hate me. We are now at the point where my eldest child (teen) has come home in tears because of her ‘chatting shit’ about me. She shouts at them for any mention of me, demands to know the finer details of my working and private lives, slags me off to the point of calling me dirty, saying I am a bad mother because I can’t drop my eldest at high school due to the layout of the local land and my need to be at work on time (it would involve double-backing and I can’t leave earlier due to childcare opening times), and other general shit.

My ex doesn’t join in but doesn’t stop it either. All my children don’t want me to intervene because they are scared because they are not supposed to discuss with me what happens at their dad’s house. They have been taught not to talk back to adults and are scared of challenging her anyway.

How best to support them? My ex isn’t reasonable and will deny and minimise. He left the OW for her blatant abuse of our children but this relationship is now long term, on-going and I am very sure he is party to what is going on. In other words, I think he accepts it and isn’t about to leave.

I am fully independent, working full time (apparently the fact that I have a meeting every morning is, in her words, a sign I am being ‘monitored’ when in fact, I attend a daily briefing at 8:30 like most teachers up and down the country!) whilst she relies on her parents business for employment (and presumably my ex). He doesn’t pay maintenance so she has no axe to grind there. I drive a decent car, own my own home, and we have regular holidays (he has never taken our children on holiday). I closed my CSA case years ago.

Any ideas? They want to see their dad but have no private time with him to discuss. She is always there. We are not yet at the point of not wanting to spend time with them but it is not far off. They are asking what would happen if....

Frustrated.

Could you meet up with the both of them?

No. It’s not an option. He knows how to upset me and tie me in knots. I cope by keeping the distance a million miles!

He won’t mediate. He says nothing will change (read as: I know I am unreasonable and I have no intention of compromise).

I know it’s damaging. I know.

How old are he children? (Sorry if I’ve missed it).
I would also suggest running through some replies with the children, if they are old enough.
I particularly like the one that says ‘my mum is never rude about you’. And if their dad is in the room when they say it, it might have a better effect.
They are his children and I’m sure he loves them. If they tell him it makes them sad, then surely that will pull at his heart strings.

OP,
You sound an amazing Mother.

Your poor children having to listen to this crap.

She's without a doubt a jealous person cunt

You've handles this so well, so far, but if its now making the children upset, you've got to act.

Any chance you could meet her and tell her "stop your shit with my kids" or are you a really nice person ?

I feel for you and your children.

I have had similar, and I think people assume the ex would care if the DC didn't come to visit, and that you can therefore reason with him on what's acceptable. With mine he didn't really mind much either way, so there was very little I could do!

My DCs seemed to still enjoy going some tho, it just tailed off to every 3 weekends, then monthly...now he comes and takes them out for a couple of hours, about once every 3 months!
The problem is that its not nice for kids to know their dad isn't very bothered about them and puts some new woman's happiness above theirs, so you tend to try to patch up their relationship and keepbit going, for the kids sake. I think it was worth doing for mine (but the new OH wasn't quite as bad as the OPs). One of them recently commented that his DF put seeing them way down his list tho, so they certainly figured it out now.

14, 12, 8. He’d have to have a heart to pull at heartstrings! I do ‘t think it would. He would just blame me ‘cos I am responsible for everything from his cheating to global warming!

I'm sorry but my kids wouldn't be going, I'd claim maintenance and otherwise tell the kids he doesn't pay his share of their upkeep.
Keep a record of what she is saying to your kids, inform ss and go for supervised contact.
Do this for your dc, they deserve to know the truth and make up their own minds whether they want to go or not.

Please don’t be rude about Mum. She is never rude about you

Growing up I had a million opportunities to say this to my stepmother. I wish I had. Even just once.

It is highly unlikely that SS would have a role, as the DC are safe with their mum and they would judge her competent to protect them. It would be a family law matter.

I need to rethink boundaries. It is a good lesson to learn that they don’t always need to respond to please others (something I probably do).

The reason I suggested this is that my own parents really impressed upon us that we should always be polite and respectful to adults. Always

I was in several situations as a child and as a teenager where the adult was acting inappropriately/aggressively/dangerously.

I never said anything. I didn’t challenge or walk out of the room or run away.

I wanted to. I knew what I wanted to say or do but I was scared I would get into trouble.

Looking back I wouldn’t have done but that wasn’t how I felt. I felt powerless.

As a result this is a key difference in how I parent my own children.

They have always been explicitly told that if an adult makes them uncomfortable or frightened they have my permission to leave and seek help.

They have also been told that it isn’t rude to disagree or challenge as long as you are polite.

The caveat is that they have to be able to defend their behaviour to me (and only me) afterwards.

I expect very high standards of behaviour normally so it’s not like I’ve given them carte blanche to be disrespectful or cheeky generally. They know it’s in exceptional circumstances.

This would definitely count.

If they can stay calm and respectful while telling her she’s out of line it would really highlight her poor behaviour. Might embarrass your ex into action but even if not it should help them feel empowered.

You are right, Really it is a good skill to learn and I didn’t acquire it until I was at university.

I think it's important that you teach older children how to be assertive without being rude. They are unhappy and uncomfortable with what she is saying but haven't been given the tools to deal with it. The 14 year old particularly should have the right to answer her when she is rude about you. pinkcalluna has some good ideas for wording.

If you can't meet with him or his partner (and I don't blame you for avoiding this) and you won't allow them to speak out against this you are just sending then off to battle unarmed. They must be allowed to speak out and I think giving them the words to speak out in an appropriate way is the answer. Also making them aware (the older ones at least) that they have the right to choose not to go. I would suggest they all have the right given that he has in breach of arrangements. Is he really likely to fight it if his children don't want to go there and he hasn't been paying cms payments? Perhaps refusing to go will make him start seeing his children separately from this woman.

TBH I would stop sending the DC and block all contact with this stupid prick and his unpleasant partner. I doubt he's got the money to pursue you through the courts and, even if he tries it on, you can block and stonewall for a good long time - long enough for the DC to be old enough to refuse ever to see him again and be listened to.

Just make sure you tell the DC that it's not their fault, that some people are just not very good at being parents, and he is one of them. Slag the GF off to them as much as you like, because they owe her nothing.

So, we had a pep talk this morning and practised saying ‘I don’t want you to talk like that about mummy’ and ‘Don’t be rude about mummy, she’s never rude about you’. They have permission to say this clearly, without shouting, and know that they won’t be in any trouble with me by sticking up for me. My eldest was very clingy and upset. I told him I would support him in making a decision not to go to dad’s house if partner continued to be rude about me. I gave him money to put himself straight into a bus because he said he was going to walk out if she started again. I also said call me, no matter what time, and I will pick him up from where ever he wants.

And now I am waiting. I can’t text because dad doesn’t like him communicating with me (‘we need our privacy’) and on more than one occasion has taken the phone and started texting me back (fortunately it is obvious from texting style who it is), presumably as some kind of warning he is watching.

I am now sat here on tenterhooks, half way through the first series of ‘Designated Survivor’!

Well done Ohreally. Your poor children.

Thinking of you ohreally, you have prepared your dc as well as possible, hopefully, the WW (wicked witch aka giving a bad name to stepmothers) will be shamed into better behaviour!

Have you read the book Co-parenting with a toxic ex?, I haven't but have seen it recommended, I do think that it might also be worth reading the Lundy Bancroft book 'why does he do that' as your ex definitely sounds abusive!

www.amazon.co.uk/Co-parenting-Toxic-Ex-Ex-Spouse-Against/dp/1608829588/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?keywords=books+on+co-parenting+with+a+narcissist&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1523718819&sr=8-1-fkmr2

I remember reading a quote from Lundy Bancroft's book saying that a large proportion of the new partners of abusive men, described the ex-wife as evil personified (due to the vitriol and obscene lies that the abusive men would feed their new partners). That won't help your dc, who are really struggling now. I would chat with your eldest son and say that he isn't responsible for his younger siblings, that he doesn't have to go to his Dad's if he doesn't want to. If the children come back again complaining of their sm verbally abusing you, to them, then I would cancel all contact. I would either send a letter through your solicitor or send it recorded delivery, saying that all three children are very distressed by the way that their sm and f verbally abuse their Mother during visits. As a result, all three have asked not to return, as they find it too distressing. He can then take you to court if he wants, then the children can tell the family courts how abusive their sm/ f are!

My gut knots reading this, and remembering what it was like dealing with it on a weekly basis. It's only now, years later as adults, that my DDs have told me some of the things that went on. Everything was twisted around, so if they tried to stand up for themselves they'd be called in to face their dad and SM, looking all serious, and saying things like "We're really trying to understand where this aggression is coming from...". A young child doesn't have the wherewithal to point out that defending yourself against bullying isn't aggression.

You've done really well, OP. I hope your children get to use their words today, and that it makes the partner retreat. At the very least it will give her pause for thought.

Thanks. No news so far so I’m guessing that’s good news. Fingers crossed the rest of the weekend goes well.

You have acted with grace and dignity op. Well done