To think bus passes for all under 25s is a fab idea

[jnfrrss]

Around here the bus is so expensive that it's cheaper to run a car but many young people can't afford that while saving for a deposit. This is a really good policy by labour imo. I would also restore the bus pass to JSA people as that is really needed.

I also disagree with free fares for under 18s in London. It's massively abused, a lot of antisocial behaviour, overcrowding on buses from teens who take it 2 stops rather than walking, and it encourages childhood obesity. I would far rather under 18s pay a nominal amount.

I also remember when they made swimming free. Pools were full of massive groups of rowdy unaccompanied teens. And effectively is was only free for 8-18 year olds as if you were under 8 you needed a paying adult with you. I had two under 5 at the time and we couldn’t even get in due to overcrowding.

Buses are shite. To get to our local town (3 miles away) we have to catch a bus to another town (4 miles away, takes 20 mins) then catch a connecting bus (30 mins) to the desired town. Its quicker to walk the 3 miles than catch a bus.

Big city is 12mins away by car. By bus its 45mins. Buses every 30 mins.

Last bus out of city: 7:30pm.

So young people wont use the bus because, unlike London, the buses dont actually run at times people want to use them. ANd the bus fare into city or town is around £5 one way. SO unless you are a regular commuter and can get a weekly or monthly pass, the buses are ridiculously expensive.

Once again a policy designed for London-centric Labour.

WHat I would support is a free public transport service for kids in full time education up to 18. My sons' train pass to 6th form for 1 term is over £300. That's with student discount. My youngest son is still in senior school, but has a November birthday. From November, although he is in full time school education in Y11, he will have to pay a lot more for his train to school.

If it reduced the number of cars on the road it'd be a good thing. I can never get over the number of cars with one person in them.

No it would make routes unprofitable and they would strip it back. Where I am they are already struggling or they would hike prices up again. Something will go up somewhere. I'm over 25 I can't afford the stupid bus prices so I walk. Why am I different?

"Bringing back military service for under 25s will be the Tory alternative "

Amen to that, sister.

The populist (in every sense of the word) policies of Jeremy dumb fuck Corbyn frighten me. If Labour estimate that this saves 13,000,000 save a grand a year then doesn't this mean it cost someone a metric fuck-ton of money to implement?

I do think this is something dreamed up by people who have only ever lived in cities with good public transport.

The negotiations for Freedom Pass deals between Boroughs and TfL to settle the cost to Londoners is tricky to put it mildly. I wonder how competently it will be done in areas where there is no unified travel body, and presumably it will need to be sorted with each company (until whole new contracts allowing for pass issue/reissue) are due to be retendered

My DD had to pay full adult fare to get to school from age 16. No concession for student / under 18 which I think is a rip off

So yes, I think it's a good idea

It's not just London that has buses you know TheVastMajority. Other cities / towns do too. I don't live in London or even a large city and both my DD's use buses every day.

Okay problems:

1. Totally unfair on young people in rural areas, as it is pretty useless for them - 1 bus an hour or even 1 bus a week, and you might have to walk a couple of miles to even get that (if you are lucky).
2. Bus companies are already struggling because of the OAP bus passes. The main people to use the buses are OAPs who don't pay. The funding for the passes doesn't pay the cost of keeping buses going.

Is this just a way of nationalising the buses? If so why not be honest?

Ridiculous idea. Both DSs were earning in excess of £20,000 a year when they were 24.

Under 18s - fair enough.

Labour don’t have a chance in hell of getting in to power so it’s hardly worth the discussion of their policies anyway.

I think it's a good idea to provide free or cheap public transport for anyone in school, anyone over 60, anyone with children with them or anyone on a low income.

Ideally I would like to see all public transport simply be free and efficient (both fuel-wise and timetable-wise) but that's a pipe dream for now.

I doubt it would reduce accidents amongst young drivers in any meaningful way. In the last decade a significant proportion of the fatal accidents in my local area involving young people (and sadly there have been far far too many) have involved souped up and in some cases barely legal cars driven too fast by young men who wouldn't deign to get on a bus even if it was free.

At best it might give alternative options for other young people to get home who don't want to accept lifts in those situations but have no other way of getting home, but that brings us back to the the fact that these options don't exist any way because the bus routes don't, and never will exist rather than they are too expensive.

bitoutofpractice, I live near a big city and there is a bus service - as my post makes clear - but its dire. Thats the point - people will only use public transport if it is practical. A journey that takes 4x as long, costs more than petrol, not available after 7:30pm and only available every 30 minutes - or 12 minutes in the car. Its a no brainer, even when you include tax insurance and petrol costs.

If you are 16 in this area, you have to pay to get to school/college, post GCSEs. My son has a disability travel pass and it gives him freedom and choice that he never would have had otherwise. Great for his life skills.

But the problem for people in rural areas isn't that people in cities are getting free transport, it's that there aren't any buses in the countryside.

It seems unfair to say "young people in cities and towns shouldn't get this benefit because there's no buses where I live" does it?

TheVastMajority your problem is that your bus service is crap then. Not that mine isn't!

You said this was just for London. I pointed out that there are places with a good bus service outside London

The funding for OAP bus passes doesn’t pay the cost of keeping buses going - well nor should it, it is a contribution to keeping the buses going, not the full funding source.
If it is withdrawn and OAPs decide not to travel then loads of services will not run at all.

I don't know about under 25's but under 21's certainly! They get paid less than the rest of us for doing the exact same job so it's only right that they should get some perks.

I think that whatever child concessions exist in any particular council area should be extended in line with the raising of the participation age for education.

Perhaps by having school-type pass for all those continuing in school/college and a discount card for those in apprenticeships and jobs wth an educational component.

But of course that won't create new bus routes, so Issues of demand/capacity will need to be tackled and how any expansion of capacity will be funded (for example, will that be allowed for in settling the payment to travel companies for the scheme? And how would performance be monitored/enforced?)

fair enough bit ofpractice, but then you have to look at funding. WIll they introduce a local tax to fund buses for cities with good services, or will people like me in the sticks have to pay for London and pther cities kids to travel free while mine have shite services? Because if its a general increase in tax where big cities get the benefits and rural towns dont, then its not going to be a popular move.

In a way Bit, but it depends on how it's funded really. If it's funded by a tax everyone pays, including those young people who cannot access the buses then it's pretty unfair to put another tax burden on them for another benefit they can't access. And it's young people living rurally who need buses because it's physically far further to walk to access services.

@hibbledibble I am 18 and my zip means I can get to hospital appointments more easily etc. Other than school children using the bus I never see 'overcrowding' and why should under 18s be expected to lay for travel when they are in full time education?

I rely on the buses. My bus is not even as much as once an hour. I would actually happily pay more if that would make it run more often.

However, I do agree that school children should have free bus travel. They need it to get to school. And I know most parents could and would pay but there are plenty out there who wouldn’t. The local authorities have a responsibility to ensure that children can get to school and free pass for all is the easiest and probably most cost-effective way to do it.

I don’t think it’s a good idea. It has to be funded somehow. I’d rather see public transport subsidised so bus companies are encouraged to put on more routes and so that fares are reduced (but still paid by) everyone. Why should under 18s go free?

The demographic of those using the bus tends to be lower income anyway - no need to add an age limit onto it.

Finding bus fares for those on JSA however I agree with.

Wouldnt do my under 25 much good. It takes him 30 minutes to drive but at least 2 hours to work by public transport.
Also on shift work so every other week he has to be in work for 6am. That is if there is not a long wait between buses. We live borders of london, so not in the sticks.