Peculiar gestures issues - can anyone shed light?

[pigmcpigface]

I'm not seeking for advice in this post, but for explanations that might help me understand!

I've been married to my DH for 5 years. Generally happily . However, about a year into our relationship I started to notice that he didn't follow gesture. For example, if I say a phrase that conventionally has a gesture attached to it - "Look! There! A peregrine falcon!" he won't think that I might be pointing. He also couldn't use body language to indicate wishes or preferences: if he is in a conversation and needs to leave, he won't stand up, or move subtly to indicate "I have to go". However, since I pointed this out, he's learnt how to do all these things without any issue.

Here's the interesting thing - it seems to go back to his family. Neither of his parents use gesture, and they can't follow it when it is used in a social/emotional way either. I suspect that DH was never really exposed to gesture at home, and hasn't learned to tie it in with words. It's odd because his parents are spatially highly aware - they always know what direction north is, they pride themselves on their technical map-reading abilities, and not without reason because they are superb at it etc.

I should add that PIL lack fairly rudimentary emotional intelligence too - they can't respond in any emotionally appropriate or empathetic way to anything. Before I get accused of "just not liking them", it's pretty glaring - for example, I recently watched them quiz a person whose teenage relative was dying in hospital about the child's percentage chance of survival. DH (who is generally much more sensitive to other people's feelings and wishes, as is BIL) had to step in because it was so breathtakingly insensitive and causing such obvious upset. They were completely oblivious to the fact that it might not be OK to behave in this way, even though it hardly involved very sophisticated people skills.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

my guess would be he was raised by parents who lacked emotional intelligence - ergo so does he.

I suspect that's not what you want to hear though but I am sure the faux psychs will be along soon to diagnose the poor man!

Nice reply there ghosty - god forbid the OP should be curious about a behaviour her partner and his family exhibit.

Interesting question OP, am interested to read the replies you get on here. If it all gets a bit too unpleasant there are other boards you can try - Chat maybe a good place to start.

My DH is very much like this and we both think he is in the autistic spectrum. Our DD has ASC and they both have many traits in common. He also does not answer a question with a consideration of why the questioner will want the answer. If at 7pm I ask ‘did you feed the cat?’ he will answer ‘yes’ only it turns out he fed the cat that morning. It doesn’t occur to him that I am asking in order to find out if the cat needs supper!

My ds is a bit like this and we do use gestures. But if you say "your glasses are there" and pointed won't automatically look to see where you are pointing. He will just look around randomly! I'm trying to teach him to look where someone is pointing or looking etc.

Before anyone shouts ‘armchair diagnosis’ I am a professional in a relevant field and my daughter’s paediatrician also thinks my DH has ASC traits as we discussed it during the assessment process.

"I suspect that's not what you want to hear though but I am sure the faux psychs will be along soon to diagnose the poor man!"

Rather ironic given the preceeding part of your post.

not really - I'm sure lots of people will be able to 'help' though

Tufted - For about a year, when I used a gesture, I would verbalise it. So:

DH: Where are my keys?
Me: On the side by the table
DH: Where?
Me: There (pointing)
DH: (Failing to follow) Where?
Me: "THERE" MEANS I AM POINTING
DH: (Follows gesture, finds keys) Oh!

After a few weeks, he got it and we now don't have to go through this - but it was quite strange, particularly as he is really quite sensitive to others and quick to pick up on how they are feeling. It's almost like he just missed this part of communication at the appropriate point of his development, somehow, and then had to catch up later? Can that happen?

People are different. They come in all shapes and sizes. I have come across people like you describe; and I've also, oddly enough, come across people so in-tune with reading others' emotions/cues it was rather unsettling.

I don't know about development. DS does have some processing issues and paediatrician thinks he is dyspraxic.

If is infuriating when you think it's obvious, why are you looking at the window when I am clearly pointing right here on the table.

He is also guilty of standing right by whatever he is looking at and not see it though.

I'll try verbalising it.

Tufted - I don't know if it will help with a child - with an adult it's so much easier!

To be clear: I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with DH - he's mastered gesture now, albeit as an adult, and he's pretty emotionally sensitive and kind (the comment I got, overwhelmingly, when we started to date was "Oh, he's SUCH a nice man!"). I do find it strange, however, that something I associate with a fairly early developmental stage was just missing...

It's called protodeclarative pointing and I remember it being something the professionals talked about when we were going through asd diagnosis for ds.

It's such an innate thing, I'd be amazed if his family environment stopped him developing it. My second dc was doing it at about 9 months old. (I was hyper aware of it as a milestone)

If he's emotionally intelligent in other ways, and can now pick it up easily, it's curious. Did he struggle at school at all?

My DF is like this. He also can’t follow physical instructions like ‘on the shelf to the left, behind you under the counter’. He just stands there helplessly.
His parents were both like this too - unbelievably verbal, completely lacking in visual sense.
It’s one of the things psychologists asked when assessing my DS for autism (which he has).

Oh wow my dp does exactly the same with the pointing thing - if I point to something he never looks! I always find it extremely irritating, did not think there were other people like it. Following with interest!

whirly - Protodeclarative pointing! Wow! What a name! And yes, you've nailed the oddness of it - he has picked it up in a flash at 40 with a bit of help, yet didn't develop it at home. I have no idea whether it's innate or learnt for most people - in his case, it seems to have needed to be learnt quite consciously?? To avoid a drip-feed, I'm not sure that home was that emotionally supportive and kind a place for him growing up, could that be a factor?

And no, quite the opposite wrt school - he was always bright, but really blossomed when he left home. He's now an academic who is world class in his field . He works in a 'soft' social area that is very qualititative, theoretical, and people-focused, where he's interviewing and talking with people a lot.

My ds is like your dh. I still find it strange when I say oh look at that over there and ds will not look at me to see which direction to look. He looks in the opposite direction. I try my best to teach ds about body language.

Interesting that this has to be taught in humans! I would have assumed it was innate - like with dogs - they instinctively follow human pointing and gestures - they’re one of the few species that can pick up on another species social cues.

Hah! This is my DH. I have learned to say "it is where I am pointing" rather than "it's there". He also loses the subject of a sentence really quickly in conversation, which is more irritating than the pointing thing. It's hard to describe, but if you are say talking about a new car, and a few sentences on refer to the car as "it" he has already lost track of what "it" refers to...and might think you mean some secondary thing that was mentioned (but clearly not the point or focus, at least not for anyone else). It's so absurd I thought it was a clever joke at first. He is otherwise very lovely, and as we both have very high AQ scores (and therefore he can list quite a few annoying or odd things I do too) we can live with it! It's quite interesting really, our household is a bit of an example of how women with autistic traits do in fact manage social behaviours better, and perhaps mask these traits relative to men.

Dog poo! I'll stand by the poo on the pavement and point to it. DS will look up (!) or towards the hedge at eye level, before thinking to look down. Lots of near miss dog poo incidents. I've taken to kind of straddling it so he can't step in it.

Veterinari - What I'm taking from your post is that I need to tell DH he's less developed than a dawgiedog.

I have no idea if it's innate or not - I am not a doctor or a developmental psychologist and have no expertise in those areas! All I can say is that in this particular case (and apparently in numerous others on this thread) it either wasn't innate in my DH, or something interfered with its development!

but I am sure the faux psychs will be along soon to diagnose the poor man

You're not the only one on Mumsnet who dislikes this, not by a long way - I just can't get why? I would understand if people were coming on and going "it's a sign of xyz illness, he needs trepanning, stick some sleeping pills in his tea tonight and then have at him with your cordless drill" but all that people are actually doing is using ideas from psychology to get more insight into other people's behaviour. We're not offering counselling or medication, we're not bound by professional ethics, we're just talking, putting forward explanations. If someone came on here and said their other half was puking up every 90 minutes and had had diarrhea and someone else said "oh that sounds like norovirus" would we all be " what are you now a qualified GP?"

I get the feeling sometimes that people are uncomfortable about any sort of enquiry into the workings of the human mind, of anyone ever observing them and drawing (unfavourable) conclusions. But people will do that anyway, whether they use terms from psychology or not.

Aspergallus - That's so interesting about the loss of the subject. Is it an attention issue? Or is it something a bit deeper - a sense that language could unfold and could go anywhere, so that "it" is less stable than it might be to someone else, and in constant need of redefinition?

Reading this with interest.

Veterinari - my dog doesn't! Not a chance that he'll follow my pointing...

Otherwise I think he's quite bright - but that might just be compared to me....

"he needs trepanning, stick some sleeping pills in his tea tonight and then have at him with your cordless drill"

That made me laugh out loud!

This thread is literally a case of curiosity, because there really is no 'problem'. The experience has just made me aware of gesture in a new way.