Being responsible for adult DD's council tax

[samarkand]

DD moved back home in September. I duly informed the council and paid full council tax (previously I had single person's discount). She has now gone travelling for 6 months and then has a job starting in September - she does not intend to move back here as the job will not be commutable from here; however, she does not have a new home as she is travelling.

The council tell me I am not able to claim a single person discount without proof of my DD's new address. AIBU to think that I should not be held responsible for my adult DD's living arrangements.

That doesn't sound right, I think they're trying it on. But I think you need to get CAB or a solicitor involved.

She's effectively on holiday though isn't she? I can see where the council are coming from because if she wasn't away on holiday then she'd be at the house.

She's may be on holiday, but she isn't living here and does not intend to live here again. That's the point. If she had rented a property, given up the tenancy and gone abroad, the landlord would not be asked to prove any of this.

The council seem to have taken the view that I am her mother and therefore I am responsible for her, when in fact she is an adult of 22. She has only lived with me for 6 months in the last 3 1/2 years.

The council officer has also stated that if she remains abroad, they will require proof of her tenancy agreement and of her work abroad before giving me the discount.

I have now written to the Council's Data Protection Officer as I feel that the information they are requesting is excessive and unreasonable.

upstartcrow - I have been trying to get through to CAB all day.

I did get through to the Information Commissioner's Office who directed me to Principle 3 of the Data Protection Act which states "Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose or purposes for which they are processed."

I promise you OP you are not your daughters keeper once she is over 18. You are not obliged (nor should you- under the terms of the DPA) discuss or be required to discuss another adults whereabouts. It is sufficient to say that she no longer lives there and has gone abroad.
End of.
I was in the benefit / council tax discount field of prosecutions for 3 decades. The only time you as householder can be held to account is if you declare you are living there as a single person and you're not. This is not the case.
Write to the council. Request your discount, if it is refused make a complaint to the Local Authority ombudsman

That's the point. If she had rented a property, given up the tenancy and gone abroad, the landlord would not be asked to prove any of this.

They would, however, be required to pay the council tax - exactly the same as you are.

@turnipfarmers - no, there’s a council tax exemption for empty properties. The landlord doesn’t need to prove where a former tenant as gone, just inform the council that the property is empty. In exactly the same way as the OP just has to inform the council that she is a single resident, not prove where exactly her DD is.

@palepinkswan no, there’s a council tax exemption for empty properties.

It's up to the local council if they give a discount or not, some only give the discount if the property is unfurnished (i.e. can't be slept in).

Thank you kittens I hope you are correct. I have stated that she is not living with me, but so far they are adamant.

I have discovered that some Councils now use credit reference agencies to screen for likely fraud which is fair enough except it penalises people in situations where the adult who has left does not have or does not give a forwarding address for whatever reason.

I definitely didn't have to do that OP...not sure what to suggest apart from saying you have no forwarding address but they are free to come and check!! Cheeky buggers!!

@turnipfarmers - yes I’m aware of that (I’m a landlord), my point was really that as a landlord you just inform the council that the flat is empty - you don’t need to prove that your former tenant has registered elsewhere. This whole thing is bonkers, no way OP should need to pay.

turnip - I am not sure what your point is - I am not suggesting not paying council tax, I just want my 25% discount. There is only 1 of me using considerably less council resources than 2 or more people paying 100% of the tax. As a matter of principle, I also object to the Council trying to make me responsible for another adult.

knickers - they are welcome to come and look. Even when she was living here, her adult possessions fitted into a rucksack and a few carrier bags.

Mmm. I can see both sides of this. I was in pretty much the same situation when my youngest moved away to work; when I applied for the single person's discount I had to supply his new address (and the Letting Agent's details to confirm). He too was sofa surfing for some time so it took a while to sort out, during which time I was paying full Council Tax. Have to agree it should be a simple matter of notifying the Council that you are now the sole occupant and claiming the exemption. But otoh, it would be very open to abuse if it was as simple as that. Don't think it's too unreasonable to have to provide some evidence of change of circs. There again, there has to be some common sense. And a limit on what personal information they think they can demand of you.

When I bought my flat I lived with my parents whilst I redecorated it prior to moving in and was informed by the Council I wasn't entitled to claim the single person discount as I wasn't living in it but wasn't entitled to an empty property discount because I had furniture it in so I could be living in it!

Seemed a bit ridiculous and wasn't happy that I ended up paying full rate council tax for about 6 months.

There is an awful lot of confusion on this thread. You are not paying your daughter's Council Tax OP, you, as the owner occupier are paying your Council Tax.

If there is a single adult for whom this address is their sole or main residence (using the legal definition of this not some random one that's been dreamed up) then you will be entitled to SPD. The Council's contention seems to be that although your daughter isn't at your address at the moment she has gone travelling (I.e. is on holiday) and will return to your address afterwards. As she has no other address to give as a forwarding address this is a reasonable assumption. Your contention is that she has moved out permanently and will not return.

Showing the Council a flight ticket is meaningless. People go on holiday all the time, they don't get a CT discount for it!

If your home is still your daughters legal residence then you will not be able to get a single person discount until her legal residence changes. If you cannot get SPD you should apply for second adult rebate instead (as your daughter is on a low income). Second Adult Rebate is also 25% of the bill. As I said earlier, from the info. you have given you are entitled to either SPD or 2AR.

You need to speak to the Council - no-one else can fix this but them.

Also, if a property is empty and unoccupied it attracts a class C exemption for upto 3 months. To be empty and unoccupied it has to be unfurnished as well as unoccupied. This is why many rental properties do not qualify for it between tenants. Also if you purchase a property which has been empty and unoccupied and already used the 3 month exemption you will not be entitled to a new 3 months. The exemption is on the property not the liable party.

Council's have discretion on empty property and can charge 50% of the full rate or anything up to twice the full rate. It's to try and avoid the situation of people leaving property unoccupied for years and to get the property back into occupation. It's also to directly target holiday and second home owners.

Honesty OP, the easiest way to deal with this is to tell the council she has moved abroad and is not returning. If they insist on proof which you can't give then ask to apply for Second Adult Rebate until you or daughter can get the proof of change of address.

Years ago when I worked in CTax the office was populated with people who knew CT and rating law but now I swear council CT offices are populated by non-thinking automatons who just follow a script and don't apply and logic or empathy

I'm sorry you are in this position, it must be very frustrating.

If they insist on proof which you can't give then ask to apply for Second Adult Rebate until you or daughter can get the proof of change of address.

"Second Adult Rebate will not be included in the scheme for people of working age"

Yoga - the above is from our Council's website so it looks as if they have withdrawn from the scheme.

Second adult rebate is only 25 percent if the second adult is receiving specific benefits, which I assume the OP’s daughter is not receiving while abroad.

There are smaller rebates available if the second adult has a low income.

See here for details - www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction/council-tax-reduction-and-second-adult-rebate/

So in the OPs case the second adult rebate is not that useful, it won’t match her single person discount.

Ah. more fiddling with the benefits system Sorry OP, in "my" old authority it's any non-liable second resident (usually an adult child or an elderly parent) who is on a low income. They certainly don't have to be in receipt of any benefits or not be of working age.