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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to nearly faint at management fees for Newish flat??

50 replies

Smallhorse · 11/04/2018 01:05

Looking to buy a flat in Leeds.

Found one I love. I might just be able to afford it ...or so I thought ...
2 beds, 10 yo high rise building (15 floors)
Has lift and consierge.

“Management fees “ - £250 / month
WTF???
Plus residents factor fees £30/month

Is this normal ? Am I mightily out of touch ?
Ps having to bow out of buying this flat

OP posts:
Bitchywaitress · 11/04/2018 01:13

Goodness that's almost double my council tax! What are you getting for that?

Does it come with free housekeeping and personal care services Hmm. I wouldn't. That's £6K after just 2 years for a concierge and a bit of maintainence. What a rip off.

Bitchywaitress · 11/04/2018 01:14

Sorry about the flat Flowers

Noqonterf · 11/04/2018 01:15

I wouldn't pay for that op. That's outrageous.

FASH84 · 11/04/2018 01:20

Our flat was the same, they put it up every year too and once a year you'll get a bill for 'maintenance shortfall' which in our case was the neighbouring block with kids who broke fences and someone we nick named 'stella man' due to his daily appearances with carrier bags of the stuff, who would often kick in doors and smash Windows. As HA tenants they paid £7 a month service charge. We paid well over £200 a month. You're better off buying freehold, older flats might need doing up but you'll save a fortune long term. Thankfully we bought our house a few years ago and don't have those issues anymore. Also worth considering flats above shops, a friend of ours used to own a flat above an estate agent it was only open office hours and his flat was huge and no upstairs neighbours either!

Bambamber · 11/04/2018 01:29

Holy shit that's a lot! I think we paid about £950 a year, But they kept increasing it yearly and then hitting us with a shortfall which also ran into the hundreds

Original poster
Smallhorse · 11/04/2018 02:06

fASH did you know about these charges before you bought ?
There is no way I can afford this on top of mortgage

I might be naive but I had never heard of this level of common charge before

OP posts:
FASH84 · 11/04/2018 02:32

It's in the small print usually we did know, but didn't realise how much they would go up. Friends have had similar issue with maintenance shortfall bills too, these were often hundreds, one friend got a bill for £800 one year for fence repairs on top of the £200 plus a month. She fought it, even sought legal advice but there is usually small print that covers unexpected costs. I bought the flat on my own before hubby and I were together as shared ownership (I was responsible for all fees and charges but just half) so had very little choice other than to rent which felt like wasted money. The flat did increase in value (fifteen minute walk from a mainline station/30 minute train ride to a London terminal) and have us the equity to buy our house. So I don't regret it as such, but it felt very very unfair. If you have any other option I'd look into that.

FASH84 · 11/04/2018 02:33

*not, not but

SaucyJane · 11/04/2018 02:49

Leaseholders can challenge residential management/service charge fees, but it's time consuming and expensive if you use a lawyer. And if the landlord can justify them, the tribunal may well uphold them anyway.

The seller would need to provide a full breakdown of all charges and likely future costs as provided by the agent. But here you already know they are sky high. Unless it was for a particular major repair, of there's expensive features like a pool and gym to maintain, it sounds like you've made the right choice to leave it Sad

YimminiYoudar · 11/04/2018 05:44

10 years old is a prime age for this issue. There were a bunch of articles about it recently in the press. There was a spate of leasehold being written with clauses for management charges which originally started at eg £100 per month but with pre-set trigger points to double every 6 years. The target market for these flats are first time buyers who think they are only going to be there for 4 years before they take the next step up the housing ladder so they didn't care too much at the time. It is only now that the fees are reaching these astronomical sizes that people are noticing what the contracts actually say.

Don't buy this flat. Find a different one.

Eventually the flats will prove unsaleable, and the owners will either have to take the freeholder to court or buy them out, and it will be very expensive and tiresome for all concerned.

You do not have to be part of this. Walk away.

RoseAndRose · 11/04/2018 06:30

Those are the level of fees you pay for flats in complexes for the elderly, which have some common facilities and onsite staff.

It's high for just a flat even if they amortise major repairs as well pay routine maintenance and upkeep.

KanielOutis · 11/04/2018 06:33

If you want a flat, then have a look at older flats. I have a converted house split into two flats and pay £680 per year, which includes ground rent, building insurance and maintenance.

user1471426142 · 11/04/2018 06:52

We had that level of fee on a temporary basis as there were major works that needed doing. It seems a lot but I guess the salary and on costs for the consierge will contribute a big chunk of the cost. I think you need to find out exactly what it covers. If it is weird contract terms like other posters have referenced then I’d personally leave it. If it’s for a high level of service then you have a decision to make whether you are prepared to pay for that or not.

What I think is more of a piss take is the trend for new build houses to have service charges. I looked at one new build estate and the fees were over a grand a year even for detached houses (and the communal areas amounted for a bit of grass). Put me off totally as there was no way we wanted to pay a service charge on top of a big mortgage forever.

CheekyRedhead · 11/04/2018 06:56

I've seen fees of that level before. it's not uncommon I'm afraid

Penfold007 · 11/04/2018 06:56

Was the block originally LA or HA owned and they are still the freeholders and managing agents? If so these blocks often have HA tenants and leaseholders which is absolutely fine until it comes to service charges, they expect leaseholders to pay the lions share of any charges. You'd do well to pull out of this purchase.

CheekyRedhead · 11/04/2018 06:58

a colleague is currently in discuss with her building. they've taken quotes for work. want several hundred pounds from her and she won't benefit from any of the work as she is ground floor. the work is something like Windows on the top 3 floors. she's livid

SaucyJane · 11/04/2018 06:59

That's standard Redhead - there's a famous case somewhere, where the ground floor tenant objected to the cost of repairing the lift, but lost. It's a sort of "one for all, all for one" situation with resi service charges.

NeverTwerkNaked · 11/04/2018 07:02

I’d pull out. It will be a nightmare. (Property lawyer).

SaucyJane · 11/04/2018 07:02

(Assuming the lease doesn't exclude liability, and it's hard to see a landlord agreeing to that!).

bradysolicitors.com/brady-blog/solarbeta-vs-akindele-question-obligation/

Welshlovebicuit · 11/04/2018 07:09

I pulled out of a purchase on a freehold with a well known national housebuilder last year because my solicitor found a well hidden bit of small print that the £250 a year site maintenance charge would be fixed at that for 5 years, then the private maintenance firm could set its own fee from then on u to a limit of £5000 a year!

mistermagpie · 11/04/2018 07:11

My last flat was £130 a month, we had a lift, it was on a private road (which needed maintenance) and had a (free) gym/swimming pool complex. I still thought it was a lot but actually I think I got a bargain!

starlightmeteorite · 11/04/2018 07:13

Fairly standard, and can be much higher in London.

Avoid ex local authority flats unless you now they have been recently refurbished. We were hit for £30,000 in an 18 month period as they decided to do a ful block refurb. The work they did really didn't reflect the cost as it doesn't look all that different. That was on top of the annual service charge, and not surprisingly a lot of the privately owned flats were put up for sale as not many could afford it. Major works bills are a big worry.

goinggoinggonegirl · 11/04/2018 07:14

Also cost a fortune to sell!

I'm selling my 1 bed flat and so far it has cost me £3100 to sell excluding estate agent fee.

Most of that is ridiculous charges from the management company - £550 to transfer the title deed for example. Will never ever ever buy a leasehold property.

Flipchisandmushypeaa · 11/04/2018 07:16

Ours was £220 a month and some unexpected major work came up on the exterior of the block and then we had to put more in. Simply crazy!

PrawnBhuna · 11/04/2018 07:31

I bout a new build flat about 15 years ago. It had a lift and shared parts were cleaned weekly (literally just hoovered) plus bulbs changed and grounds maintained. Charges were never kept within the monthly amount we were told so each year extra was asked for and fees raised. We never had value for money as the management co could just do what they liked. Lightbulb changing was charged at about £1200 per year for instance, to change maybe 5 bulbs!

Then to add insult, when I came to sell the mgmt co screwed me over again by charging individual fees of £150 to £250 per document that was needed by the lawyer. Cost me hundreds and was so unethical, even the lawyer was flabbergasted.

I complained to watchdog and they called me up to get more detail, seemed a lot of disgruntled people had been in touch. Solitaire was the name of the company.

Avoid, avoid, avoid is my advice OP.