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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To withold contact from the dc from ex following his attitude to CM

47 replies

Theduchessstill · 10/04/2018 11:03

After 4 years of separation/ divorce I finally put in a claim for CM. I tried to do it just between us but he ignored all my emails about it. I went for the option where they tell him the amount and then he pays me direct, but he ignored that too and is 3 weeks in arrears. Not a lot, but I know he has no intention of paying it, ever. So I informed them and they have obviously contacted him and informed him it will go to the option where they take payment direct from him and it costs him an extra 20%.

So yesterday he finally stopped ignoring the issue and emailed to say I am 'nailing him to the floor' and that he will lose his house due to my actions. He gave in to all my demands during the divorce and could have demanded more from me, but didn't. All bollocks - I borrowed the maximum I was allowed to buy him out, and he received 13k less than a year ago. It's not my fault that he has already pissed it all away. He will get a further 10k, but not for another 13 years when ds2 is 21. The only thing he could have had but didn't was any of my pension, but that's because he wants stuff now, not in the future and insists he wold be dead by then, anyway .

I could ignore all this, but he has also said he will make sure the dc know his situation is all my fault, especially when he loses his home, and they will know what a selfish bitch I am etc etc.

Why should I send them there to hear his lies? Even if they don't believe it, it will be upsetting to hear, I'm sure.

And have I done the wrong thing in asking for CM? He pays nothing, provides nothing, does have them twice a week (though ds1 is making noises about wanting to cut down visits, and at 11 is old enough I think) but until very recently was texting me asking for pants for them etc. He earns little, but I struggle to believe he is losing his house over £16.75 a week he hasn't even fucking paid yet! He smokes/drinks and I'm sure could find most of the mney by cutting down on that - it's essentially a bottle of wine and a packet of fags isn't it?

They are due to go Thursday - what do I do?

OP posts:

windchimesabotage · 10/04/2018 12:04

I sympathise with you and your fear but sadly you cannot preempt his behaviour... you have to deal with it if and when it occurs.
You would be very right to with hold contact if he does start emotionally abusing them and trying to set them against you... but you cannot do that over some comments he made to you over the phone.
That would put him in the stronger position because he could argue that you were trying to turn the children against him and he would then be the one with the evidence as you would have prevented them from seeing him.

So sadly I think you will have to let them go. I understand your fear that he will mess with their heads but theres nothing you can do about that at this point. You were perfectly reasonable to ask for the money he owes you. Just remain calm and try and detach emotionally. Dont get into a big row with him. Just facilitate the kids seeing him and limit your actual conversation with him.
If you do end up with any evidence he is emotionally abusing them, then you could think about preventing contact.

kateandme · 10/04/2018 12:08

at that age id be pretty able to hold the convo I think you could have. sitting down with dc and sying you know how mum and day pay for things.well you've asked dad to do so too to keep things fair and he isn't happy.and this might mean he says things or tries to make thing up that just aren't true.perhaps give him way to change the subject or ignore it.to nod but not get involved.tell him you never want to bitch about the dad but don't want them ever thinking youd want to hurt them or cause problems.dad might be hurting and lashing out though.but you've only tried to do what fair for the kids.and if they are told things and find it hard or unsure of it then make sure they must come to you with anything at all and ask you whether its true or whats going on.that nothing is too bad or out ther for you to handle.

kateandme · 10/04/2018 12:10

youll spot there changes in behaviour towards you too.and its at this point you step in and try and find out whats been said or make sure they no ur there and not all might be as its seen or told.to talk to you.
start covnersations that might hint at whats been said or happened.etc.

Mightymucks · 10/04/2018 12:16

If you do this one day your ex will truthfully be able to say that you deprived them of a relationship with him and not for things he’d done but things he might do.

You might want to think about how they would feel about that. Bear in mind they are not far off the age when they can make their own mind up.

Wheresthebeach · 10/04/2018 12:18

Hi OP - its hard when someone is saying awful things about you to the kids. At the moment though he's just threatening to be nasty - he hasn't done it yet.

We had this - DH's ex said terrible things about him, and me to the kids, his family, us on the phone. Went on for years.

I remember DSD asking her father at dinner 'why does Mummy say horrible things about you, but you never say anything nasty about her?'. That rather summed it up. We got to the point of giving them factual information. Your mother will be angry because ABC - it's not your problem.

It never affected our relationship with the kids because we did everything to keep them out of it. They know that, they appreciate that. Kids hate hearing their parents criticised.

Withholding access is using your kids - I know it feels like protecting yourself, and them but it isn't. Its saying 'be nice about me or you can't see your children'. Do not go down this route. You may not care, but if you do this, and he takes you to court you would lose, and definitely be the bad guy.

If you must do something then say something factual.

'Your father is angry at me as I'm insisting that he starts paying some Child Maintainance. I hope he doesn't say anything to you, but if he does please remember this is NOT your problem, and is between us as your parents.'

llangennith · 10/04/2018 12:19

Do your DC want to see their father? If so, let them. Calmly and conversationally mention to your DC that unfortunately their DF isn’t very good with money and is overspending and is blaming you for some strange reason.

RunMummyRun68 · 10/04/2018 12:21

At 11 your dc can vote with their feet anyway..

Original poster

Theduchessstill · 10/04/2018 12:55

Thanks for the advice. It's a good idea I think for me to almost 'get in first' and warn them (without badmouthing him) that he may say some things but they should come to me, not worry etc etc That will help me stay in control without becoming the bad guy.

OP posts:

LittleMyLikesSnuffkin · 10/04/2018 13:06

As hard as it is because his behaviour is galling, treat contact as separate for the children’s sake. My own daughter came home a while back with tales of woe about poor daddy being in debt which she was ever so worried about. It transpired that daddy was in all this debt because of nasty mean mummy and owed lots of money in legal fees.

Legal fees he accrued by being physically, sexually, mentally and financially abusive making it impossible to sort out access to the children between ourselves.

I informed DD that daddy was being a bit unfair talking to his children about this as it’s for grown ups to sort out, nothing for the children to worry about. She accepts this. Sometimes you have to be a bit blunt.

Flockoftreegulls · 10/04/2018 13:32

Good luck

AornisHades · 10/04/2018 13:38

You've got the moral high ground here. Don't give him the opportunity of accusing you of using the dc as financial pawns. If he bad mouths you then tackle that in isolation.

GabriellaMontez · 10/04/2018 13:42

DO they know about the cm?

I think at 11 they are old enough to understand what you have asked of him and why. In a calm, factual way. Equally explain that you know he's cross about this and let you know if they have questions for you. All very simple but so they're prepared.

It may be he will dig his own hole.

I sympathise. We all know maintenance is separate from contact. It's just that it's rarely the mum who gets to stop financially contributing.

almondcroissantplease · 10/04/2018 13:57

I didn't really withhold access but I did threaten to and it worked, he paid up. Honestly, sometimes access is the only bargaining tool you have. My sons DP didn't think I would do it and he used to take the complete piss. One week I just literally said you aren't having them any more - I had to get his mother involved lol, but it worked. I'm year on and he is sometimes late with payments but they come every month. He is also a smoker on a low wage - being on a low wage is no excuse. You have kids, you pay for them! Good luck, keep on top of CM - call everyday if you have to to make sure they pester him.

Gloryificus · 10/04/2018 14:01

I've had this with an ex, it was horrendous at the time.
I too would counteract the vindictive bitterness aimed at me via the dc with simple explanations and how sorry I was that their father was saying such things. I explained the purpose of cm and how they shouldn't have to hear this as money issues should always be between parents.
It was awful at time ex tried all sorts of tactics that I'd spend cm on socialising. That was swiftly disproved as dc were aware I'd no social life!
Then when cm was being handed over ex wanted dc to believe it was solely their own money ie pocket money.
I sought counseling for myself to have an outlet to vent at. And eldest dc was struggling too so I sought therapy for them too.

We've come out otherside now (it all came crashing down when ex accused me (to the dcs) of neglecting them) ex moved away no forwarding address.
Eldest dc is an adult and it was hurtful but they can see I've been the day in day out parent supporting them helping them and being the consistent one.

Pinkvoid · 10/04/2018 14:03

Unless he is neglecting or abusing your DC, you don’t have a case to stop them going. For example, if it went to court and you simply said you stopped the access because you were preempting he would ‘brainwash’ your DC against you, no judge would side with you. Until you have evidence he is neglecting or abusing (emotionally or otherwise) your DC, they have to go.

donners312 · 13/04/2018 22:20

Sorry bit not paying CM is neglect? Do these children drink nettle tea and sleep on the streets?

Not paying CM is fucking neglect!!!

donners312 · 13/04/2018 22:21

and i admit the court may not agree but IME the courts are completely clueless and then some!

GabriellaMontez · 14/04/2018 09:22

Totally agree donners! Apparently dodging all financial contributions to essentials like food and clothing isn't real neglect...

C0untDucku1a · 14/04/2018 09:33

I dont blame you op. Being a lying sack of crap and telling your children that their mother, their sole provider, is causing his problems is emotional manipulation. Awful behaviour. But theyre old enough to understand money. Stick to the facts. How much does he smoke a week? I bet it isnt just one packet! How much does he drink? Work out the costs and just stick to cold, hard facts.

The court said your dad needs to give £16.45 a week to help feed you. Your dad spends £xx on smoking and alcohol. The £16.45 isnt the issue. The problem is he spends £xx on smoking and alcohol he cant afford. We cant change that, so just try to Ignore him when he says these things.

allthegoodnameshadgone · 14/04/2018 09:41

If this goes to court you will come out the worse as they don't link CM with access.

allthegoodnameshadgone · 14/04/2018 09:42

I honestly don't know whether you can withhold access due to what he tells them.

Can you go see citizens advice or get a free hour consultation with a solicitor?

I did this for something very similar.

swingofthings · 14/04/2018 09:54

There is a big difference between him telling you that he will tell things bad about you and actually doing it. People make threats when they are angry, upset, annoyed, but it doesn't mean they will carry them out.

Your ex is clearly not being a good dad by not paying anything, but that doesn't mean that your children have nothing to gain from seeing him regularly.

My ex has never paid maintenance and after a couple of years of trying to get to a friendly arrangement because I didn't want to make him angry worried that he would then act on it towards the kids, I gave up. Not only did I pay absolutely everything for them, I even paid for them to go and visit him every week-end because he couldn't even pay that. Everything I did, I did it for them, and ignored the fact that he was benefiting. I have always encouraged a relationship between them and him.

The outcome: DD who is 18 still sees him regularly but I don't think she would say she is close to him. She loves him and cares for him, more like an adult towards a child actually but she would never go to him for anything important. DS 15 decided last year he didn't want anything to do with him any longer. His choice and as much as I encouraged contact, I would not force it on him.

One thing is that I can look at myself in the eye and know that I did absolutely everything to help them have a relationship with him and they certainly know it, and that's priceless.

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