To be annoyed that the library turned into a kids play area?

[Camdenlife33]

My local library went under some renovations and has finally reopened. It’s a small library and the renovations seem to be an addition of a ‘little ones’ cafe and play area.

The only floor of the library, and so the only area with seating/computers, is now shared with a kids cafe and play area. It’s open plan, so the kids area is seconds away from the ‘quietest area’ of the library. The library is filled with under 5s shouting and darting around. It isn’t a general murmur of background noise, it’s actual screams/shrieks and kids running around and playing IN the library. I’m sure you can imagine what 30+ toddlers together in a play area sounds like - I thought I was at the wrong place.

I genuinely can’t focus. I’m in 3rd year uni and I came to the library to work on my dissertation before work. AIBU to find this unacceptable? It’s strange as there is both a university and a level college in walking distance to this library - I wonder why they didn’t take their visitors who would like to work/study/read in peace into account, and instead essentially turned the library into a kids play building.

(I have already left the library btw)

Having been both of the people in this awkward situation (student, too poor to commute to the uni library in the holidays, and parent of small children desperate for a place to take them) I really think if it's not possible to separate the study section of the library from the shouty little kid section, then the students need to come first. It's really awkward as well as a parent, you come in with your kids and there are people obviously studying and so you're on your nerves, ineffectively trying to shush your kids. In our town the town library had the study room, the little local libraries the rhyme time sessions, and that worked fine. It's all gone to shit now though, hasn't it, with the cuts? I can't see that the Tories have any intention other than to completely entrench their own privilege with this move.

Sorry you had this OP. I'm actually chatting on the philosophy board about how to set up a quiet community. Modern life is batshit with screaming children everywhere. The day I decided not to use the library any more was the day someone brought children in with those shoes that make a noise with every step.

That's not a library op that is a play area with books.

Not all libraries offer a place for silent study, they're still libraries though. Just like mobile libraries. Much easier to take a book home to your silent foam coated room.

If the library didn't think it was worth encouraging, I'm sure they wouldnt' have set it up in the way they did.

Ours isn't a silent library. It has an established independent cafe and a play area by the kids books. It's always packed especially with older people - they love it - tea and little kids to chat to. It's rally protected our library and my dc love it.

And since we go are going through an erosion of safe public spaces I will fight for my library just the way it is until I'm dead and buried

Libraries are no longer the hushed places they used to be. I don't see why they need to be quiet really.

Why don't you take books out and study at home?

Because some people live in over crowded houses where quiet places and a desk is hard to get.

You can access public areas freely
www.bl.uk/visit/reading-rooms

And i am sure student qualifies for reading room access to collection

If you do not need to access tothecollections you can use our public areas to study without having togetaReader Pass.WiFiis provided in all our public spaces, as well as inside our Reading Rooms.For more information see ourfacilitiesandaccessibility pages.

But the children's groups, chess groups, computer, gardening, PCSO meeting, small business meetings, book clubs, photography club, and a whole host of other local groups are also regular library users.

I think some people are getting a public library confused with a reading room.

I think the people using the library in the ways you mention above are getting a public library confused with a community centre. They are using the spaces available in the library, not the library (and its collection) itself.

I think it's great that these groups have places to go, but people should be able to study at a library.

For the record, I work at an academic library which is also open to the public. It does get noisy at times. We hand out earplugs to those who ask for them.

I love the British Library and study there a lot , I’m also a member and a devotee of the 9.00am queue , however local libraries are invaluable especially of or school pupils beeding a place to study . I also agree that we are losing our ability to be quiet , children have been using libraries for generations without needing to run around like banshees.

YANBU at all! This would drive me nuts, agree with Anxious who put it very well. Libraries should be encouraging children to read, either by teaching, chatting (quietly), storytime, children reading themselves or doing some writing or art.

Imagine walking past a park or going to a soft play and all the children were sat quietly reading, we'd think it weird wouldn't we, so why is it acceptable the other way round?!

There isn't enough funding for libraries, the budget cuts are pretty drastic.

Libraries need to prove their worth by offering many events to all ages, the number of people attending events are fed back to justify funding received.

If libraries were the quiet and peaceful environment you would like, they would lose funding and be forced to close. They are evolving in order to survive.

@forcryinoutloud "Imagine walking past a park or going to a soft play and all the children were sat quietly reading, we'd think it weird wouldn't we, so why is it acceptable the other way round?!"

Exactly! The library was like a magic place as a child with all the stories!

The thing about keeping them open through children playing is a red herring. I'm willing to bet those libraries will go the same way - they will close them, that's the next step. They're not making money off people using it as a play place for children. I thought it was a London thing so they can build flats etc but isn't there a borough in the midlands that was giving locals a nonsultation on closing all the libraries or keeping just one library out of a dozen?

I also wonder where the teens are going, the ones who don't have quiet at home. Studying for exams must be harder for them. We had a brilliant student at my school, went to Oxford. Couldn't study at home because she had three younger siblings allowed to raise merry hell and her parents told her she just had to put up with it. They hated having a clever child. But anyway, the library was her sanity. Otherwise you're constantly asking your mates parents if you can go there, which isn't ideal.

Andylion had you read through the links I included you'd see why that happens. A public library s not an academic library, it does not have the same function, nor the same funding stream, nor the same 'ownership'. They have now been devolved to local councils and have been stripped of much of their central government funding.

There have been a lot of changes in the last couple of years and people probably are totally unaware of what has happened, why their local library is changing so quickly. Given that they are now 'owned' by local councils individuals can get involved at a political level... if they feel strongly enough! But moaning nd then avoiding libraries isn't going to make any changes, other than accelerating what is already happening!

I also wonder where the teens are going, the ones who don't have quiet at home. Here, because the local council was lobbied, our Teen Zone was gifted with some extra support. So they now have a couple of extra computers which are included in the library budget but based in the Teen Zone, which does have a study room. I think that has been quite a regular outcome in this area. It may well have happened in yours too!

Curious, no, the local teens are still having no luck here but tbh I think it's all irrelevant because I'm quite sure the two nearest to me will be shut down and made into flats.

I'm interested that you refer to changes happening in the last couple of years. In terms of handing over half the library for children's play, I'm in a London borough and that happened about 10 years ago - part of a "this is how we will keep libraries open". Then about 4 years ago there was a nonsultation and the children's section was closed off for private meeting rooms for hire and about half the books were culled and staff made redundant.

there's also some issue now about under 16s accessing the library without an adult - given that it's only staff a few hours a day and not all days of the week, it's a problem that won't be solved. But as I say, mine is a borough where everything is being knocked down for flats.

I knew the librarians pretty well and they weren't happy about the library being half allocated for children's activities but they were sold the lie that it would be the way to keep the library open. They all got made redundant anyway.

there's one library that I think will be kept, in my borough, and after everyone has become dependent on it, I think they will charge.

Ah - I say recent, as it was only recently rolled out here, about 3 years ago. But you are right, the changes were started back in 2010 - Sorry

As you might have guessed I am not in London, not all library services have yet been changed, devolved. Ours certainly won't be sold for flats any time soon, there's far to many lovely green fields being sold for larger development - despite us not having banks, restaurants or the road capacity the latest viability report says we have!

Curious "there's far to many lovely green fields being sold for larger development"

Andylion had you read through the links I included you'd see why that happens.

CuriousaboutSamphire I understand why it's happening. I just think it's sad that the public library has to involve into something other than a library in order to survive.

Andylion sorry. That is much how I feel, though, as a rural user I am also happy that our is used by the community as a whole!

Spring I know! No amount of lobbying, raising planning issues etc has any affect, not once the "Sustainable Housing" flag has been raised!

Our local libraries are all threatened with reduced hours and asking for volunteers

Just curious about something, and I admit I don't have the answer to this question in terms of my own library system, in Canada. How many users regularly borrow e-books? Are these numbers factored into library usage?

I posted above that I work in an academic library. Much of our material is now electronic, particularly serials/journals. We still have a full house when it comes to study space and our students bemoan the fact that, unlike the other main library on campus, we are not open 24 hours. (For the record, that service is only available to students/faculty and staff.)

We are also open to the public who have access to use our resources as long as they provide ID. They prefer coming to our library instead of the lovely public branch fives minutes away.

YANBU. Libraries should be quiet places, there are few enough of those left as it is.

Andylion "I just think it's sad that the public library has to involve into something other than a library in order to survive."

it doesn't, this is the red herring. What has happened is that it was good PR for libraries to let child activities take over while councils quietly made plans to sell them off or massively reduce the service.

in terms of e-books, surely they would be in the UK because otherwise how would authors claim their PLR money?

bringincrazyback "Libraries should be quiet places, there are few enough of those left as it is."

there aren't any quiet places left - when our libraries started doing children's play, that was the last refuge - not just for students who needed to study away from home, but for people just needing quiet and enjoying books.

Problem with saying take kids to the local park is either they no longer exist (built on etc), or alot of them now are filled with bored teens, drinkers, drug users etc or have been wrecked. Where we used to live it was full of drunks and drug users, along with broken glass, needles, a ton of dog poop and the such like. Yes, libraries should be quieter, kids need to be taught this, but its not meant to be as silent as a morgue lol. A lot of libraries are closing, there's few community centres left (for whatever reason) and libraries are having to diversify if they want to survive. Doesn't help with open plan, less staff etc. We can't complain about lack of literacy or libraries if we don't encourage the next generations thro the doors. Books can be expensive and the amount a kid needs to prevent boredom plus to progress from baby books to teen books etc is massive.

It would irritate me too and I'm the one with the kids who run around shrieking in the library and have to escort them out. I think there should be a quiet area you can go in a library where you wouldn't expect children if you are using computers or whatever. I don't see why that's unreasonable, but you are asking on MUMSnet so you likely won't get a lot of agreement.