Selective distate - celebs and underage sex

[Flatpackjackie]

Reading a thread about R Kelly, I wonder why we lambast some famous men for having sex with minors (did Rolf Harris commit rape, or was it sexual assault?), whereas other seem to get off lightly.

For example, David Bowie, Steven Tyler, Elvis, Bill Wyman, Iggy Pop - all unscathed and idolised, yet all allegedly had sex with children.

I wonder why we choose to despise some and ignore the rumours about others.

It’s difficult. Since the #MeToo thing, countless people have said such-and-star did something to them, but this is the only thing heard about this star. Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey faced multiple allegations from several people.
I thought of Michael Jackson when I saw your thread; lots of allegations against him but no sentence handed down. Obviously since he’s dead we won’t know for absolutely certain.
It’s also somewhat different as Rolf Harris wasn’t imprisoned at the height of his popularity/fame. Weinstein and Spacey were both still very much active in Hollywood, not semi-retired or less in the spotlight than they had been.

I was pretty disgusted to read an article about David Bowie just after he passed where the journalist had romantisiced him sleeping with 13/14 year old girls.

I wonder if it's because we expect 'sexy' rock stars to rebel and therefore turn a blind eye?

I read that R Kelly married Aaliyah when she was just 15.

Apparently Jerry Lee Lewis (Great Balls of Fire) married his cousin, who was 13, when he was 22. There was public uproar and he was forced to cancel a tour. The marriage lasted 13 years... unbelievable.

I'm disgusted with ALL people who have raped children. Some of the. We're once hero's of mine. No more.

FlatpackJackie I think some people require some level of proof, thats all. Not everyone does the 'I believe you' thing.

It's hard to accept someone you admired could do a horrible thing so people compartmentalise. R Kelly has actual video evidence of abuse and Rolf Harris has a conviction so it's less easy to excuse their actions as rumour which is perhaps why they are treated more harshly. Never the less I think we should treat these men with equal contempt regardless of whether they were once our heroes.

I think a lot of it is situational and time dependent. Now, I can't say this loud enough, I really can't I'm not condoning anything ...but in the 60s and 70s the age of consent wasn't really a thing and there was a groupie culture. Young girls wanted to sleep with Bowie, Tyler etc. In interviews the girl who slept with Bowie speaks fondly about it all. It doesn't make it right but it's different to Rolf Harris sexually assaulting children. There was some level of consent with the Bowie thing, however misguided it was.

Attitudes around sex have changed a lot which is why the thoughts of a man in his 20s sleeping with a 14 year old now is just plain wrong.

Artistic snobbery. "cool" artists like Bowie, Iggy Pop etc get a free license. "naff" artists like Gary Glitter get lambasted. The only difference is in the cultural cachet of their work.

Tbf I don't think Bowie and Iggy pop sleeping with underage groupies is in the same league as serial child abuser and sex tourist Gary Glitter.
Neither are right but Gary Glitter is far more dangerous.

Bill Wyman's sexual relationship with a child is acknowledged though. He hasn't denied it and neither has Mandy Smith.

I wonder why he is still selling records, touring etc. He's totally respected, whereas others who have sex with children aren't.

Steve Tyler has also admitted to relationship(s) with children, afaik.

Elvis and Lisa Marie were open about their under-age relationship too.

I think it's because it would cause too much cultural problems if we suddenly gave David Bowie to the same treatment as anyone else, in the public eye or otherwise, who rapes a child.

R Kelly is given plenty of airtime and respect, yet is open about his penchant for underage sex. "Age aint nothing but a number", and all that.

I can't fathom that one.

John Peel, the DJ, had a sexual relationship with a girl in her early teens. It was made public after his death, yet he's still respected. There's even a stage at Glastonbury Festival named after him.

Partly it's to do with their audience - Rolf cultivated the 'family entertainment' market and people thought he was 'safe.' You would trust him round your daughters, which isn't necessarily true of most rock stars. So when it all came out it was massive betrayal of that trust. Also, someone actually made a complaint about him and took it all the way to court.

Rock Stars whole image is based on you not trusting them with your daughters. The stories are often second hand, or the victims settle with an NDA so people either don't believe it or think they were in it for the money. And ultimately as far as society is concerned 'nice' girls don't hang around with rock stars - the ones that do are judged as being no better than they ought to be, so 'it's not as bad' as when it's that nice man off the telly.

Most people left school and had full-time jobs at 15 till the late 60s. In many ways, teenagers were more mature and less sheltered than now. Referring to a 15 yr old as a child and calling consensual sex rape would have seemed very OTT. Besotted fans would lie about their age.

It was a different time. The age of consent varies from country to country. It's an arbitrary number. Jerry Lee Lewis was criticised here, but it was relatively normal in the southern states of the USA at that time.

I think there's more disapproval of men like Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris who continued to prefer underage partners throughout their lives than Bowie and John Peel who both went on to have same age relationships.

There have been rumours about R Kelly for years, I remember them at school. People thought it was disgusting but I don’t think the man on the street expected they could do anything about it until recently.

I was just thinking the other day about MJ. Unlike many others, nothing more has come out about him since he died, which is strange and makes me wonder if he wasn’t sexually assulting children after all? Seems weird doesn’t it?

It is weird re MJ. Particularly when you think about Jimmy Savile. Rumours abounded for years and years yet the shit only truly hit the fan once he'd died.

Same with Bowie and John Peel. It's only since they died that it was made public. John Peel allegedly impregnated the child. So sad.

It does make you wonder why once MJ was dead and couldn’t pay out money to make them go away, the accusations stopped?

John Peel, the DJ, had a sexual relationship with a girl in her early teens. It was made public after his death

Wasn't she fifteen? That was always known.

It’s hard to answer the original question btw, I think it’s just what’s put in front of us. I’m late thirties, not into rock admittedly, but also barely know who those people are. Obv know Bowie and Tyler but I only know who bill Wyman is because of Mandy smith and don’t know the first thing about John peel, or tbh, Gary glitter who always seemed like a joke. Rolf Harris and Jimmy saville, I grew up with them.

I think, while it's still wrong either way, a lot of it depends on how the (usually) girl feels about it now. In several cases - like Peel and Bowie - the now-woman regrets nothing and sees themself as a protagonist, not a victim.

It makes it harder to condemn when the 'victim' is cool with it!