About different languages being spoken at work?

[purplesnake]

To be honest, I'm scared to post this at the risk of sounding a bit racist, but I don't intend it to be taken like that at all.

I work, in London, for a company which has an incredibly diverse employee base - being British definitely makes you a minority. I'm not going to debate whether that's a good or bad thing.

Anyway, a lot of my coworkers are from mainland Europe and frequently talk amongst themselves at the desks in their native languages. I speak semi-decent French and Spanish but nowhere near good enough to understand them (I am trying to improve though!) and I find it a bit intimidating to be sat at my desk, knowing they're talking but having no idea what they're saying. I also feel like if they are talking about work, they should speak in English so that the rest of us, even if we just overhear things, can have an idea of what's going on.

Of course, if they are talking to a French speaking client on the phone, for example, then I have no issue with them speaking French. Or if they wanted to grab a coffee and chat about personal things in their own language, good for them.

AIBU to expect that in a business environment in an English speaking country, people should be speaking English?

I would never switch to another language when out and about, Pluckedpencil. Are people really so shocked that someone sitting near them is speaking another language, and if they are, are they worthy of such consideration?

It reminds me of working as a student in the local tourist information in Norway. Occasionally we would get English speaking tourists coming in to complain how rude it was that local people were speaking Norwegian in the streets and shops. Apparently everyone should have switched to English so that they could understand them. Ridiculous people.

My DP’s best friend has lived in Denmark for three years. His DP is Danish as are his colleagues and all of their friends yet he still cannot speak Danish. His excuse is that he is dyslexic so it’s more difficult for him to learn it than the average person. I call bullshit since you do not necessarily need to read the words to understand the language being spoken. He is quite simply being a typical Brit and stubbornly refusing the learn the language under the premise of everyone around him understanding English. However he becomes very upset every time he and his friends go out drinking and they revert to mother tongue as he feels left out so often storms off home in a tantrum. I find this behaviour beyond pathetic...

They are having private conversations amongst themselves and I assume they aren’t obviously discussing you or doing it in a way to make you feel ostracised. I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

Honestly, if you can’t understand what they are saying then your French and Spanish aren’t all that semi-decent.
YABU i work in multi-lingual environment (official language English) and I enjoy hearing all the different languages around me. If two French people want to chat/discuss something why wouldn’t they use their language?

Meh... I work in an office like this and speak a minority language. I'll unashamedly continue to use it.
When I speak to my colleague in our language I'm usually asking her how to phrase something to a client or similar so the language is relevant.

Honestly, if you can’t understand what they are saying then your French and Spanish aren’t all that semi-decent.

That's what I was going to say.

If you're staying in the job it's a good opportunity to further your language skills, take classes outside work and practice speaking in the office.

Its not the same in social or tourists context or with your own family out and about.

Pinkvoid 3 people out for a drink, 2 speaking in a language that the third doesnt understand, effectively excluding him when they have all gone out for a drink is bloody rude. They shouldnt have invited him if they wanted to talk in their own language. Id go home too if thats the company.

Please understand language is so much more than just saying words.

Yeah that. I could work in Spain, say, and learn technically perfect Spanish if I tried hard enough, but I would have to leave behind fundamental elements of my personality in order to speak it all the time. I wouldn't want that for any of my international clients or colleagues, it would be bloody miserable for them.

I think once you have worked overseas yourself you see this differently. I speak English only and the 'business' language of my office is English (in Asia). Meetings are conducted in English.

Obviously the locals will speak their native language to each other - I found it strange at first but now I just tune it all out. I would be pretty certain it is not personal - people just default to their native tongue.

If we are all out at lunch, sometimes they will all talk in the native tongue and I will feel a bit excluded but don't blame them at all.

The only time I don't like it - is when I hear my name mentioned in the middle of a conversation in their language....

Place yourself in their shoes - if you were working overseas and were told you could never speak your own language wouldn't you think this was rude and unfair??

It’s tricky

I think if people are chatting non stop and their local Language and it’s feel exclusive it
Might be time for HR /management to review

But more in a ‘we want to forge a common culture ‘ than BREXIT way !

I think that in work situations when there are others around you should speak the official language of that country. So in England you speak English, in France you speak French etc. I can't understand why anyone would live in a country and not learn to speak the language. It's lazy.

I used to work on cruise ships and the rule was English only in guest and working areas. You could speak whatever you wanted in your cabin or back deck but you had to speak English around the guests as it is very common for people to feel uncomfortable if they don't understand what people are saying. I even had a complaint put in against be because a guest thought I was speaking a different language when in fact it was just my accent and she heard a phrase I said out of context! And I am English!

a guest thought I was speaking a different language when in fact it was just my accent and she heard a phrase I said out of context

When I was 18 and hadn't been away from home for any length of time, I needed someone to interpret between me (thick Dorset accent) and a Brummie with a thick accent. (There was also alcohol involved.) We managed, though.

is very common for people to feel uncomfortable if they don't understand what people are saying

It is very common for British people to feel uncomfortable if they don't understand what people are saying.

In other countries where multiple languages are spoken it isn't unusual to not always be able to understand what people are saying. It's no big deal. People may be speaking about you but it isn't the main reason they speak their language and speaking English won't stop them gossiping about you if they want to. I think British people are just not used to being in a weaker position, hence the strong objections.

It's generally monolingual people who have a problem with this - anyone who speaks more than one language or who has lived for any length of time in a foreign country will understand perfectly why this might happen. I'm willing to bet that if the OP was living and working in France or Spain to improve her languages she would revert to English to chat with native English speakers and would think nothing of it.

It is very common for British people to feel uncomfortable if they don't understand what people are saying.

^ This. It's insular, ignorant, suspicious, unsympathetic and paranoid.

I can only assume posters saying how people should 'just learn and just speak' another language have not mastered that many themselves. If you only start learning new languages as an adult, it takes A LOT of time and effort to go from 'I can order a beer' or 'I'm semi-decent but can't understand simple conversations' to a fluent level, where you don't struggle for words, where you can joke, use idioms, get your collocations right, and so on. It's hard. And when you want to take a break from working in that foreign language and ask your colleague what she did over the weekend, of course it is so lovely when you can do this in your native language.

I work in an international office, we are not in an English-speaking country. I have never, ever seen 2 English-speakers having a conversation switching to either of the local languages for the benefit of their colleagues who might hear them.

I think that in work situations when there are others around you should speak the official language of that country. So in England you speak English, in France you speak French etc. I can't understand why anyone would live in a country and not learn to speak the language. It's lazy.

Its not as simple as that though. I live and work in Asia - pretty much all of the non-local people I know here don't speak the local language as it is very difficult to learn. Everyone picks up a little - i.e. to give directions in a taxi or greetings but becoming fluent is incredibly hard. I have friends who don't work and have had intensive classes but still a long long way from fluent.

That being said - given it is such a melting pot people are very tolerant of all languages being spoken. It would only be a problem if meetings were not conducted in English.

you had to speak English around the guests as it is very common for people to feel uncomfortable if they don't understand what people are saying.

What delicate flowers.

I think British people are just not used to being in a weaker position, hence the strong objections.

This!!

This is what it is!

Has anyone been to Malaysia or India outside tourist areas, or any one of the many other countries with more than one official languages? Sit at a food stall in Malaysia at a night market not in a tourist area, and you'll hear local people speaking Malay and Chinese and bits of English. Everyone has a mother tongue they prefer. In many countries its absolutely normal not to understand every overheard conversation, and people are not constantly feeling offended by it!

Also the people saying "just learn the language" are being pig thick, or deliberately disingenuous or just utterly devoid of empathy, or a bit of all three tbh. Of course you learn the language. However it is absolutely exhausting operating in a language learnt as an adult for most people (a few exceptions have a talent for languages, and those brought up bi or tri lingual have a head start in new languages).

I work only in German because there are no native English speakers at my workplace. I am retraining and go to college 15 hours a week, all in German gor German native speakers - I am one of only 4 foreigners remaining out of 55 people on the 3 year course. I write essays in German and take exams in German, and am managing to keep up with the native speakers.

Its bloody exhausting. At lunch times (now) I have to take time out and sit by myself and read a book in English or MN in English or phone someone I can speak English to.

I like my classmates. I can joke in German and do, but in a laughing at myself way mostly but I can't understand jokes based on idioms. People are really patient with me and explain things - I think they are a lot more tolerant with me than the average British class might be. They are nice people. Bloody hell I need a break from 8 hours of solid German though.

If there were another native English speaker on the course I would absolutely speak English to them from time to time. The two Russians on the course do and the only thing I've ever heard anyone say is that it's cool to listen to! People say that when they hear me on the phone to my kids or DH too - they learn English at school but can't follow when I'm speaking to a native speaker, and they say it sounds cool!

In a context where people are vulnerable it's different - I work in a support work setting and would never speak English around the people I look after, except the odd jokey private conversation in the staff only office with the Greek cleaning lady, who likes to speak a bit of English! The same in hospital if in close proximity to patients who might be scared or worried. That is because they are vulnerable, and because talking over or about people and not including them isn't OK. Its no worse than when some doctors use medical jargon to talk over patients, especially vulnerable people unlikely to understand it, though. Positions of vulnerability are a special case.

Its an English speaking thing, the general feeling insecurity around speakers of other languages when in a non vulnerable situation. Not all English speakers. The self centred or thoughtless ones.

I can only assume posters saying how people should 'just learn and just speak' another language have not mastered that many themselves. If you only start learning new languages as an adult, it takes A LOT of time and effort to go from 'I can order a beer' or 'I'm semi-decent but can't understand simple conversations' to a fluent level, where you don't struggle for words, where you can joke, use idioms, get your collocations right, and so on.

It's because I have that I say it. Learning European languages is not hard. I don't think OP needs to be fluent. But she could get to A level standard in a couple of years - many people do a language from scratch at A level. And the great thing is she can practice speaking and listening in the office.

Yep same.
I speak 14 languages to conversational level - 3 of those fluently.

The thing is though I do wonder whether the language is a red herring. If I hear people speaking in a foreign language I assume it's probably boring and nothing to do with me.

If you're getting worked up about it, would you be equally as worked up if they were whispering in English?

Or, do you feel there's something 'other' about someone speaking in a different language?

either way, you don't have to acheive fluency in order to put the wind up someone who actually is talking inappropriately in the office. You just have to give the impression you understand a fairly random amount for them not to rely on your incomprehension.

I feel really strongly that nobody should feel bad about relaxing their brain and speaking in their native language for a while at the office when it's appropriate.

I would normally say they can speak however they want, however I have recently had a situation at work when one man was, quite frankly constantly staring at me, which made me uncomfortable as it was, but then he would turn to his colleague and speak in a language I didn't understand whilst they both turned back to look at me.

As a rule I don't care what language they speak but it was quite clear it was about it and I felt that was really rude.

3stone, I'm sorry to hear that. That's not acceptable.

I would say, though, that it's also quite possible for people to behave like that while speaking in your own language, but quietly so you can't hear. It's intimidating and probably a kind of bullying, but it's not just the language people use while doing it that's the problem.

I don't think OP needs to be fluent. But she could get to A level standard in a couple of years

Yes she probably could, which is, as you probably also agree, level quite far from being fluent. My comment was about the posters saying all people should hold all their conversations in English.

I have 6 languages on my CV and speak another 6 at 'ordering beer' level. I am not particularly talented. And for an average person like me, it is not a walk in the park to become fluent, to get to level where you don't have to actually put effort in to express yourself.

Those colleagues of OP's might be like catinapool above and exhausted from working in a foreign language all day. They might want to give their brain a little break with idle chit-chat. In a language that does not require extra effort. But people believe it's fair to demand they should talk in English just in case OP wants to eavesdrop?