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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to put hidden camera in DM's room in care home

53 replies

GirlsBlouse17 · 06/04/2018 21:07

Am asking for a friend actually.

Her mum is in a care home and a care worker apparently shouted at her mum for ringing the bell during the night. Her mum was frightened and confused.

Would it be unreasonable for my friend to put a hidden camera in her mum's room to keep an eye on what happens there? Are there any legal implications of doing this?

OP posts:
nursy1 · 06/04/2018 22:26

Little woo. That is heartbreaking. I’ve come across some dreadful care during my time in nursing and reported people for it. Too often lately the solution is seen as retraining because the staff shortages are so bad that people who are really not suitable to work in a care setting remain there. A few like this on a shift can lead to a really toxic situation with other staff who are trying to give good care intimidated and upset. We need to get the profession regulated by a professional body and then pay them a proper wage for the work they do.
I should finish by saying that most careers are genuinely worthy of the role.

LadyLapsang · 06/04/2018 22:34

I think if I had got to that stage I would be looking for another home - surely you need to trust the people who are caring for your loved ones. There is also the question of the person's privacy. I am sure that most people working in a clinical /caring setting have had patients / clients share thoughts about relatives (I prefer X, Y doesn't visit, Z is only after my money etc. etc.); what would your friend do if that happened? Littlewoo, how dreadful for you and of course for your great aunt, so glad you took action and got them dismissed. A nurse or carer in DH's aunt's nursing home stole from her decades ago - forged cheques etc. - she was prosecuted.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 06/04/2018 22:40

Tell your friend to believe her mum. She wouldn't lie It brings me no pleasure to tell you this but It does go on in some homes. I'd just get her out of there straight away
My dad was in respite and he'd tell you the night staff especially would sit around gossiping in their little clique huffing and puffing when a resident rang a bell or wanted something.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 06/04/2018 22:43

I wouldn't have the patience to be a care worker. If I had to swear on oath I'd probably hUff and puff. The difference is though. I wouldn't go into that line if work.
No one forces them to do the bloody job.

holiday101 · 06/04/2018 22:45

My gran was in a nursing home and when visiting O often heard carers shouting at residents, especially when they had pressed the buzzer. I was so glad that my gran died whilst she was still able to independently (although with difficulty) walk and was very famous mentis. There were a few strok e patients who couldn't move at all and often cried out for help to get repeatedly shouted at 😢 I was a teen back then and really wish I had have reported it.

UpSideDownBrain · 06/04/2018 22:48

I wish we had this option when my grandad was in hospital - he was covered in bruises without explanation.

DrEustaciaBenson · 06/04/2018 22:50

Her DM's need for safety overrides her need for privacy.

That's for her DM to decide, surely.

gryffen · 06/04/2018 22:54

If she's in a care home then you will be breaking the law as you must have signs up saying you are being filmed.

If in her own house then you can put a CCTV sign outside house and you MUST have her agreement or power of attorney to do so as the backlash could be caustic.

I say this with over 10yrs security experience and also 5yrs working in secure mental health unit.

Imho- seek out legal advice first.

AtSea1979 · 06/04/2018 22:56

babyspider unfortunately you couldn’t be more wrong. A lot of care workers are forced in to care because its so low pay and it’s all they can get.

AllNamesTakenhell · 07/04/2018 03:15

Yanbu. I dont know why it's not mandatory for care homed. My granny's care hone has them which is a relief.

Also they protect staff, my friend was assaulted by a man with dementia- she wasn't the first or last. It took several more before action was taken as the home and family refuse to accept it

AlbaChick · 07/04/2018 03:27

I think cameras would be an exxcellent idea. It would offer protection and peace of mind to residents, families and staff. I’m surprised they aren’t installed in every care facility.

5plusMeAndHim · 07/04/2018 04:38

Most care homes have an automatic system that records when each call bell is rung and when it is switched off.If there system shows the call bell wasn't rung then it wasn't.

thelonggame · 07/04/2018 07:19

the homes in my area that I've worked in don't have automatic recording of 'bells', it's written manually in the daily diary sheets, so can easily be intentionally or accidentally not recorded.

Original poster
GirlsBlouse17 · 07/04/2018 13:42

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this. We have gained much information from everyone's comments. I think it would make sense if it was mandatory to have cameras as it would give some protection to everyone. Sorry to those who have posted here who have relatives who have experienced abuse in a home. That is just awful and heart breaking.

Raven thank you for the link to a hidden camera on Amazon. I'm surprised how inexpensive they are!

OP posts:
8misskitty8 · 07/04/2018 14:04

I’d do it, especially since your friend has suspicions.

My nana has dementia and is still at home with my grandad. They have careers that come in twice a day. Cleaner and cook.
One carer comes in the morning to get my nana up, showered, support stockings on and dressed.
My aunt was suspicious that nana wasn’t being showered for a few days as her hair was greasy and the cleaner reported that there wasn’t much clothing in the wash basket.
But the carer had recorded she was being showered etc. Every day. Grandad couldn’t tell as he stayed downstairs when the carer was in.

Aunt confronted the carer who denied everything. Said my nana had been showered every day. Only after my aunt pressed her did the carer admit she couldnt be bothered showering her every day and what was the problem. My aunt sacked her and told her employer why.
The company they use pay their staff very well, much better than other companies.
I do worry when the time comes and nana has to go into a care home.

maggienolia · 07/04/2018 15:10

Agree with PP above, I would check what the legal position is on this.
In homecare carers have to be told if a camera is in place and can refuse to visit if not comfortable with this. In one case the lady's care package was terminated because too many staff refused.
If your relationship with the home is so poor that you're thinking like this I would look for a new setting.

Original poster
GirlsBlouse17 · 07/04/2018 20:26

Thanks Maggienolia. My friend will definitely check the legal position before doing anything

OP posts:
RebeccaBunchLawyer · 08/04/2018 15:16

I am a bit surprised at people suggesting covert cameras. I totally get that relatives can be worried about their loved ones etc etc, but awful if you can’t trust the care staff. Surely they’re going to feel undervalued if they later find out about the camera; surely better to be upfront and tell them that everything is filmed?

I’m currently a home carer/companion due to various challenges with my other career plans, and I while I do act like I am on camera all the time, I would hate to find out later I’d been filmed tbh, as the trust has gone.

I was once a nanny, and later found out there was a camera watching me and the kids. It really freaked me out to be honest, and although I was “reassured” that it was primarily for the mother to see which kid started each fight each time (don’t get me started!!), it still left a bad taste, particularly when I was probably caught on the odd private phonecall possibly discussing job woes, when the kids were in bed!

MammaTJ · 08/04/2018 15:30

As someone who has done care work I would welcome this.

As someone who was once accused of shouting at someone for ringing her bell, I would welcome this!

The poor lady was always terribly anxious about ringing her bell, always reassured by me whenever she did, 'You're keeping me in a job', 'It's what I'm here for', 'No, it's not a problem'. Still, she must have half woken, decided not to ring her bell, then had a nightmare. She had rung her bell 3 times before and each time I had helped her to the commode, then back to bed. She dreamed that I had shouted at her for ringing her bell and told her to went the bed. I had not done that. There was a print out of all the times she had rung and she said that I had helped her three times, then got cross on the fourth time. The print out only showed her as ringing 4 times. Her family did not know what to believe. I was upset that this lady was upset with me. If there had been a camera in the room, everything would have been clearer for all concerned.

MilkyCoffeeAndSkinnySyrup · 08/04/2018 15:37

Yes do it!

lalalalyra · 08/04/2018 15:45

My FIL's room has a covert camera. It has full audio, but is angled so the photo doesn't record the bathroom or the bed so it doesn't cover him getting dressed or changed (but the carers can be heard).

MIL opted to do this because she's concerned that the standard of care has gone downhilll recently, especially at the weekends when there seem to be very, very few staff. We were told FIL was being checked on hourly (he's bedridden after a hip op) yet we were there for two and a half hours (no staff seen us arrive, which is another concern) and no-one put their head around the door once.

If there was somewhere with space that we could move him too then we would, but everywhere else locally is full.

upsetangryandpissed · 08/04/2018 15:48

As a carer I would happily welcome cameras into the clients home . It helps an awful lot when you report something such as neglect but cant prove it as its your word against the other person (carer). I wish all the clients i visit had cameras as it would have helped me get rid of a bad carer who had the gift of the gab & talked her way out of an issue.

5plusMeAndHim · 08/04/2018 18:54

I think it would make sense if it was mandatory to have cameras as it would give some protection to everyone

That would be a huge infringment on the privacy of residents!

niccyb · 08/04/2018 18:59

It’s a little different to install a camera in a home belonging to her mum than installing one in belonging to someone else.
I would raise it with the manager and find out who the actual owner is and raise with them.
I would demand an investigation as to who was On shift and that if things are not looked into your friend will be contacting social services and raising a safeguarding concern. X

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