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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Driveway help! No one knows who owns the verge

25 replies

mscongeniality · 05/04/2018 14:02

Hi mumsnet,

I know you're all super knowledgable about driveways and parking issues so I knew I had to come here for advice.

I'm at my wits end. Submitted an application in Jan to convert our front garden into a driveway because there is a massive influx of cars on our street and we can never find parking. Multiple neighbours are a nightmare and own 4+ cars each, some that never move. So yea its vital we get our driveway done!

The issue is that there is a verge of green grass in front of our property. So to make the driveway we would intersect that to reach the road.

We hired planning architects to help with the drawings and submit the application on our behalf to make sure we covered all our bases.

The County Council has given us provisional permission, however they are saying they don't own the green verge so we need to get permission from whoever owns it, most likely the local council. We have spoken to both the Planning Department and the Housing Department in our local council, and they have said no they don't own it.

I'm ready to rip my hair out, who owns this stupid piece of grass?! How can I find out? I'm just going around in circles speaking to these people

OP posts:

DancingLedge · 05/04/2018 14:03

Have you tried Highways?

Original poster

mscongeniality · 05/04/2018 14:06

Yes its our County Council's Highways department that we submitted the application to for the dropped kerb. That has been provisionally granted, and they are saying they don't own the green verge :/

OP posts:

SharkSave · 05/04/2018 14:08

Who maintains it?

FloorLamp · 05/04/2018 14:08

Who cuts the grass?

carnassials · 05/04/2018 14:10

Try the Land Registry? Give them a call or use their website

FloorLamp · 05/04/2018 14:10

Anyone else on your street have a driveway with or had a similar verge you could ask?

Tainbri · 05/04/2018 14:11

From my limited knowledge, if land registry fails to pull up who owns the land, you will probably have to get legal advice and seek an easement to enable you to access your property over the unknown owners land.

dotdotdotmustdash · 05/04/2018 14:13

Have you checked on your own deeds to see if it's within your own boundary? I know that we own down the roadway on our back garden, but there's a 2 metre verge between our fence and the road.

ScienceIsTruth · 05/04/2018 14:16

Sorry to point this out if you've already checked, but are you sure it doesn't come under your deeds? Also, if you've been maintaining/using it for over 12(?) years, you may find you've acquired ownership.

PatriciaHolm · 05/04/2018 14:16

How old is your house? We live on a development about 18 years old, and various bits of land around still belong to the developers.

Original poster

mscongeniality · 05/04/2018 14:18

Who cuts the grass?
I'm pretty sure that would be the local council as I've seen men driving around on the lawn movers cutting the grass.
Our property is ex-council owned so its very very confusing because one of our next door neighbours are council tenants but we own ours.

Anyone else on your street have a driveway with or had a similar verge you could ask?

Yes they do, which is why we know it shouldn't be a huge issue but they did get it done many years ago and I think they have made it much harder now. I will speak to my neighbour again about the grass though, before when I spoke to her she never mentioned anything she made it seem like it was very straight forward.

Yes I think the Land Registry is my next option, I was just looking there but you can only search for properties, how do you search for a random area of grass thats maybe 5 x 8 m? :/

OP posts:

Original poster

mscongeniality · 05/04/2018 14:19

Only been in the property 3 years unfortunately.

I'm quite quite sure we don't own it, there is a footpath, then the verge, then the road.

OP posts:

lalalalyra · 05/04/2018 14:27

Land registry should tell you. You might very well own it - we own a random piece of grass at the end of our garden/driveway. It's us, footpath, cycle path, verge (which we own), road. Sometimes there is no logic!

MolliewithOllie · 05/04/2018 14:33

when I wanted to put up a small hedge to stop ne'erdowells driving over the verge which directly abutted my house (old cottage so no front garden) I was told I was responsible for the verge into the middle of the roadway and a hedge was no problem.I did have a driveway that theoretically crossed the verge (except the verge was not there)
Not very helpful if you don't live off an old sheep track (now adopted)

Kazzyhoward · 05/04/2018 14:37

I'm quite quite sure we don't own it, there is a footpath, then the verge, then the road.

Doesn't have to be attached to the rest of your property to be yours. We have a canal running through our village. There are homes on the opposite side the road which "own" the grass verge of the canal to moor boats etc., which is across a pavement, a road, a cycle track and the canal footpath itself. British Waterways mow all the grass verge for tidiness without them adopting ownership.

Collaborate · 05/04/2018 14:42

The chances are you own it. It is presumed that the property is owned up to the middle of the road, with various authorities having rights over the surface. If local highways say they don't own it then assume you can just proceed.

DancingLedge · 05/04/2018 14:49

You can do a map search on the Land Registry website.

Although the chances are quite high that it won't be registered.

CasperGutman · 05/04/2018 14:57

The fact there's a footpath doesn't mean you don't own the verge, necessarily. You might own the land the footpath is on, but even if you don't that doesn't necessarily prove anything. My first house included ownership of a garage on a completely different street, 150 metres away, under the same title. It doesn't have to be one block of land to be part of your title.

frankchickens · 05/04/2018 14:58

You could try a local councillor - this is the sort of stuff they are there to help with. They probably won't know the answer, but they may be more help in knowing who else to ask.

Collaborate · 06/04/2018 07:01

The verge is what’s called “amenity land”. It must be kept open, but you should be able to make your access drive over it. There isn’t an owner waiting in the wings to stop you.

Tainbri · 06/04/2018 15:34

You do still legally need an easement if it's not you who owns the land. Seek legal advice.

BlondeB83 · 06/04/2018 15:37

I think it's highly likely that you own it.

Tainbri · 06/04/2018 15:44

In the eyes of the law "highly likely" isn't enough. She can't just do a land grab. She has already said that the land isn't included on her deeds and nobody knows who owns it. She needs to have a search done with Land Registry and go from there.

dotdotdotmustdash · 06/04/2018 16:46

She has already said that the land isn't included on her deeds

She hasn't actually said that - just that she's quite sure that she doesn't (own it) since there's a footpath over it. It's definitely worth physically checking the deeds to make sure. I didn't think I owned the verge behind our house and was surprised when I looked carefully at the boundary drawn on our deeds.

Tainbri · 06/04/2018 16:49

Exactly - a search at Land Registry and if she doesn't own it, she'll need to get an Easement.

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