In laws financial situation

[Fianceechickie]

I love my in laws to bits. They're lovely and I wish I saw more of them (they live in Ireland). Last year DH and I persuaded them finally to sell their house because they were in terrible arrears with the mortgage and had been threatened with repossession. With each month that went by, the debt increased. They ended up with just enough once it was sold and bank had their money, to buy the cheapest possible bungalow in their town. The purchase was very problematic however and, in the interim, they have lived with DH's sister. Now they've decided not to go ahead with the purchase and stay put. At first they wanted to give us, and presumably DH's sister all the capital from the house as an early inheritance. We guessed they were giving her quite a bit for one thing and another anyway. We told them no, they should keep what little capital they had in property, that it could be so problematic living with their daughter, what could go wrong etc. DH sister also in v bad debt and in default with mortgage. She has no permanent job and they're all in bad health. They're determined not to buy again however, or even to invest the money. They and DH sister have started to spend the capital (I don't even think they've used it to get the bank of his sister's back either) and now they're offering to pay for our patio which is generous but not good for them financially. I just think they're making a huge mistake spending it in dribs and drabs. What if the bank throws them all out of my SIL's house? What if she gets a new man and it doesn't work out them living together? What if they need money for their care etc? How do I make them see sense? Or do I just take the money, say 'thanks very much' and stop worrying?!

Could you take the money and put it away for them? They're obviously going to need it...

And can your DH take them to a financial advisor before it's all gone?

Didn’t you have this thread posted recently already?

That's just what I was going to say. Also, if they're so irresponsible with money, they might be better off renting, that way they can claim housing benefit should they need to.

They are being really daft but I'm not sure you can do anything except protect your own assets by telling them that if they spend all their capital they cannot rely on you for any financial help at all as yours is all tied up/accounted for or whatever.

I like the idea of getting them to a financial advisor, that might help them see sense.

They are probably so keen to offer to help you out because they feel bad your SIL is spending their money. I think you should say thanks so much, accept the gift, spend as little as possible on the job ie patio, abd put the rest in the bank as a pp said. It is likely they will expect help in the future as that is the way careless people tend to think... And then you can pay them back with their own money. Sometimes you just have to play the game.

That's a really good idea re the financial advisor. We could def ask them to do that (not sure if they would as we did ask them to see a debt councillor before they sold the house and they wouldn't). I'm not sure we could keep some of patio money aside as it's actually costing a bit more than they're giving us anyway. They've seen the quote and said it was more than they thought. We should, with hindsight accepted the original offer of being given half of the whole lot, then we could have kept it aside for them. It's worse now in a way as they're giving it us for something specific. I suggested to DH that we get them to invest in a flat in the UK which we could let out for them but before we had chance to discuss it, they had started to spend it. They're not really being honest with us until after they've made decisions as they know we don't approve. We also don't think it's a good idea for them to be paying towards his sister's mortgage with no formal agreement in place. They do actually have a substantial income from pensions as well. We've no idea if they're actually getting his sister out of arrears. I suspect not but his sister's financial situation is none of our business. We can't really ask that. DH is concerned that, once they pass away, his sister will have a nice big house all paid for and he's going to have no inheritance. I pointed out that we've always known we'll get no inheritance from them anyway. I don't really are about that. I just want them safe and happy for the rest of their lives. Yes, I did post about it before but only got one reply in the money section!

No guarantee they'll get housing benefit if they've given substantial amounts of their money away bluelady. May be seen as deprivation of capital, even if their income were to be low enough to qualify.

Not sure how it all works in Ireland anyway. And their income too high I would've thought. They could afford to rent somewhere if push came to shove but it wouldn't be anywhere you'd want your ageing in laws spending their retirement.

Benefit applications only ask about the applicants' financial situation at the date of claim, they're not retrospective.

Surely you'll have your patio with or without their money, OP?

No, we can't afford it otherwise which I guess they know and they really want us to have it. We had an extension and at the moment are stepping straight out on to mud! It's so lovely of them and if it wasn't the money from the capital from their house I wouldn't be worried. Anyways, DH has accepted and I guess, even if he hadn't, the fact is, they're not keeping hold of all their capital, they've made a decision to not have their own home and give it out to their children which wouldn't change if we refused. I tried anyway and they insisted.

Come on, nobody forces money on you. What are they going to do, bring over shopping bags of money and run out of your house? And if even they did, you’d have no way of returning it to them?

If you want the patio, fine but it would be absolutely hypocritical to accept their money given your views on their financial situation. And if you do take it, you better be prepared to help them out when the undoubtedly need it with no judgment.

Have they always been this blinkered? How would two fully functioning adults with sizable pensions get themselves into this mess. How can they all live with uncertainty?

Is it worth approaching your sister? Suggesting a more paying off outstanding arrears and putting into place a formal agreement.

The sensible thing would be for them to invest in daughters property, paying off her mgage and have the title split to reflect that if they are spending their way through it

Just read your update about accepting the money. Can you really feel comfortable doing this? I could not accept the money, knowing their current way of life could make them homeless. Do what the first poster suggested and take the money as a safe keeping measure for the future - as a deposit on somewhere YOU can arrange.

If you do take the money for the patio, make sure the it is big enough for a sofa bed as it looks like they will need it as a future home.

Don't accept the money for the patio. Go onto Freecycle and you'll easily get some patio slabs that would do for now so you aren't stepping out directly onto mud. Then replace them when you can afford to

KC225 - their current way of life will make them homeless whatever OP does. It sounds like they are all bad at handling money. The OP's SIL is in debt and in mortgage arrears, and yet they are spending the capital. On what?
Pay off the debts, and they will have a roof over their head and peace of mind.
Yes, definitely suggest a financial advisor - and choose them carefully!

Treat the patio cash as a loan - they will undoubtedly need it back at some point.

Is there a Credit Union nearby that they could speak to?

It all started @KC225 about 15 years ago at the suggestion of SIL's then boyfriend who was a builder that they both get extensions. They remortgaged to fund it tho already retired. Then the crash happened and what they were paying shot up and instead of dealing with it, they just let themselves get in arrears, year after year. In the end, the bank was getting to own 1000euro more of their house each passing month. The bank didn't repossess despite threats cos there was still equity left.

I would also consider the possibility that one day you will need to put them all.up (sil too) if they are homeless.

Could you accept the money for the patio and the save the equivalent amount to give back to them down the line when they really need it? Otherwise it sounds like the money will just get spent anyway. You’ll have your patio and also know some of their money is safe for now.

Thanks for explaining OP. Gosh, that sounds awful. What a terrible situation to be in.

Thanks so much for the advice everyone. I'm going to say to DH that we could maybe say we will accept the money, but they must see a financial advisor and get something formalised with his sister re their stake in her house. Also that we treat it as a loan and be prepared to give it back should they need it. We would be able to in about 5 years with our current situation. We've discussed them moving over here before, partly as they're in such poor health and don't manage their money. All of them, PIL, SIL and niece but they don't want to. However if they all end up homeless they'll have to. We've sort of got space for in laws short term but, as I say, they have the income to rent something. SIL also got ripped off by the builder boyfriend (though that's not the only reason she's in a mess financially). She has terrible track record with men. The whole family are all about spending money rather than sensible decisions. DH has same tendencies but I think has learnt from their mistakes.

OP is truly sounds as if you have their best interests at heart. It's frustrating when you try to help someone who doesn't want to be helped. The options you have listed seems to have a cover a lot of ground - hopefully. Good luck.

I would try and show them as clearly as possible - without being patronising ( I need this clarity too) how much their money could make for them, so they never eat into the capital.