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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a DBS check is not 100% guarantee?

121 replies

PurplePenguins · 04/04/2018 20:06

Just a general discussion between 4 of us. All of us have children but I work with vulnerable children (which maybe clouding my judgement) while the other three are office bods. I agree with DBS checks, they prevent those convicted of offences such as child abuse, violence and fraud working with vulnerable people. I have had numerous DBS checks over the course of my career, but I feel there is always a chance that someone unsuitable could get through as they have never been caught. 2 of my friends disagree. They feel that DBS means that you are not that sort of person at all. The other friend is of the opinion that it is possible, but highly unlikely. AIBU or are they?

OP posts:
violetfeather · 05/04/2018 22:25

So basically as long as you have been interviewed by the police for rape and drink tampering, even though this may not lead to charges being pressed, as this is dependent on cps believing they could secure a conviction, then this incident will be flagged?

And also, how much information will be passed back to potential employer ?

violetfeather · 05/04/2018 22:31

User 147.. surely they would also use the national insurance number as well as the name. I'm aware that wrt my dd's attacker he uses two different spellings of his first name and his surname can be spelt in more than one way as well. So I could see that slipping past a check.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 22:36

Violetfeather there is no guarantee that non conviction information or soft information as they call it will be disclosed on a DBS.

The employer had to ask the subject to see the DBS as only the subject gets a copy now.

steppemum · 05/04/2018 22:38

Numbkinnuts - no I mean he was a helper for years, and in that time accumulated child porn on his computer, and then raped a child, (but not at the Sunday school)

So, for year he was offending under the radar, and would have had a clear DBS. Because the Sunday school had really good practice, it is believed that he did not harm any of the children there.

THEN he was caught. The point being that all that time his DBS would have been clear.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 22:40

Plus the soft info is disclosed usually if it has relation to their role.

So info which indicates he may be a risk to adult females only may not necessarily be disclosed when applying for a role with children.

Please don't take it as a guarantee that it would be disclosed.

dangermouseisace · 05/04/2018 22:42

YANBU. They might be a potential or indeed an actual abuser; they just haven't been caught.

FYI I know someone convicted of abuse who was previously employed as a psych nurse, so needed a CRB (now DBS) check.

I was abused by a GP, who would have had a clear CRB check. I don't think this person has EVER been caught.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 22:42

Hi steppemum I re read it and it made sense.

I know what you mean I come across a lot like that in my line of work.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 05/04/2018 22:43

To pharaphase pp "You could have committed a billion crimes and just never been caught or You could have a total clean slate and go and comit a crime that very day, and. Theyre only done once a year As far as I'm concerned they're not worth the paper they're written on.

thisagain · 05/04/2018 22:47

I deal with DBSs for people working airside in airports. We had a man working there for months with a clear DBS before the renewal DBS showed his criminal history from his home country had caught up with him. Obviously this could have been more critical. I believe it only got picked up because there was some form of appeal going on. Otherwise it may have stayed off record.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 22:48

Done once a year ? Not that often I'm afraid.

But what does happen though is that if a person has a DBS to work with children and then is arrested for offences in connection with children not just sex offences there are systems in place that will alert the employer to that. Relevant information is then shared with employer so they can take necessary steps.

Again a good system but can fail

violetfeather · 05/04/2018 22:57

This is all quite troubling. If a gay man can rape a woman then what else might he do. Surely that would be a red flag in terms of what he could potentially do, in terms of working with children. In his role singing with choirs, he would come into contact with choristers. I find it deeply troubling that he has access to singing in thirty different choirs and so easily be able to repeat his offence.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 23:02

But his role singing in a choir which may bring him into contact with choristers he may not be eligible for a DBS check.

There are quite strict rules who can have an enhanced DBS.

violetfeather · 05/04/2018 23:04

Well exactly he wouldn't have to have a DBs check. He probably wouldn't have to have one as a singing teacher either as then hed be self employed.

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 23:07

If he is a singing teacher and regularly teaching under 18s unsupervised then he would be required to have one.

The problem would be if he is self employed who will check ???

Will parents sending their child to him be vigilant and ask about his DBS ?

Numbkinnuts · 05/04/2018 23:11

If you care concerned about him working with children due to his previous concerns contact the Local Authority Designated Officer (LADO) who sits usually within children's services for your area.

violetfeather · 05/04/2018 23:13

I'm just very aware of exactly how much freedom he has to repeat offend. Just a life lesson you can never trust anyone just because they are in a 'position of trust'. They could well be left in that position in spite of his crime being known to people in charge.

MrsMaxwell · 05/04/2018 23:15

Most peadophiles groom everyone around them and never get caught.

Only the crap peadophiles get caught.

Sad
violetfeather · 05/04/2018 23:18

I don't think he would be working with children just singing alongside them in a choir.

violetfeather · 05/04/2018 23:26

The police are investigating but see no problem with him carrying on singing in all these choirs, going on residential tours with them or him singing in choirs with children. There you go, that is the way the world works.

SouthWestmom · 05/04/2018 23:27

Poca list was replaced years ago by the Barred list.

ToadsforJustice · 06/04/2018 17:57

My DSis works as a record reviewer for the police. She would agree that only crap paedophiles get caught. She says that most abusers play the long game. Integrating with the local church, choirs, children's clubs etc. She states that nearly every person (within her knowledge) that gets convicted of sexual offences involving children or vulnerable adults have a clear DBS. The police are so overwhelmed with data and fewer and fewer members of staff checking for duplicates, it's easy for an offender to slip through. They would only have to change their name slightly and alter their DOB.

TalkinPeece · 06/04/2018 18:02

the CRB system was overhauled in light of the Soham murders.
UNTRUE
CRB was brought in after Soham
and the joke is that Huntley would have got one because his record was clean

DBS are not worth the paper that are written on (both DH and DD have enhanced ones)
and any place that places total reliance on it is a fool

CharltonLido73 · 06/04/2018 18:07

Someone I worked with is currently serving 9 years for sexual offences involving children. We're all DBS checked - but checks clearly failed in that case.

Dvg · 06/04/2018 18:12

Think about all unsolved crimes, those would never come up on someone's DBS because they were unsolved so no convictions.

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