I don't believe that women earn 75% less than men at a certain airline.

[Gromance02]

I just don't. Unless they are talking about completely different roles. Eg, pilots (generally men) compared to air stewards (generally women). I'm not defending the airline but I don't think they deserve this utterly misleading headline.

Obviously if a female pilot with exactly the same length of career with the same number of sabbatical/maternity/paternity leave as a man is on less than her male counterpart, that is wrong.

I would have loved to be a pilot. When I was young though most commercial pilots had either previously been in the military as pilots, or had degrees in subjects dominated by men such as physics. It was actually very very difficult to become a pilot and few women would have had a physics degree and as no women flew in the military would not have that experience either.

When flight was first invented, there were actual as many women flying then as men. It was not dominated by men. War and the military changed that.

The question you have to ask is 'why are there so many more men in the higher paying jobs than women?

And also why are there not many men in the lower paying jobs?

It needs men to step up and take the jobs that are lower paid as well. To work part time. Take the jobs that are lower paid but allow family life / school run etc.

Interesting McDonalds reported a 0% pay gap. Does that reflect the type of people normally employed by McDonalds?

Also in female dominated industries, it is men who tend to get promoted quickly into management.

Often it’s a structural issue, this explains it really well:
english.emmaclit.com/2017/09/25/waiting/

unless women are just lazy, unambitious and less competent (which we can all agree isn't true...) these stats show that there are structural barriers preventing women from attaining the highest paid positions

How much of the GPG is due to women (on average) tending to genuinely want to take a career break to look after their children? Obviously many women don’t, but many seem to... is it all societal expectation or is there some biology there? Probably some of both.

It's a completely pointless statistic. It's working out the gender pay gap and not actually 'equal pay'. Completely different things.

A friend of mine is an airline pilot. He told me recently that there are more qualified airline pilots than there are jobs available, partly as the RAF has downsized over the years and their pilots have retrained.
The overwhelming majority of trained, qualified pilots are men. More women are taking up the profession now, but the gap will be there for quite a few years yet.

Indeed stardust, I found an academy trust with a median gender pay gap of 49% and 0% of women in higher paid positions. That's a group of SCHOOLS.

not sure advocating deregulation is a great idea.

Sorry if i have missed this but who is advocating for derelegation

I think the reporting has been weak - as it's simply looked at the pay gap and said that men are paid more than women. People then say -well, it's because of the jobs obviously.

I've not seen much conversation in the media about all the bigger questions - why do some industries pay more than others, why do some roles in a company pay more than others. why are there more men in certain roles, more women in other roles, what are the barriers, what are the possible work solutions, industry solutions etc.

Someone talked about a return to work programme - I know that there's a lot of effort to get women back into STEM careers after a break - and to get a culture shift at work.

Where I work there is no pay gap. But we are all not paid very much, there's mainly female workers and 90% of staff work part time with very flexible working patterns. That's appealing for some people but you can see why others may be put off by the low pay and lack of full time work and low career opportunities. Suits me though

I work in a company that has been alluded to in this thread

Its very very very bottom heavy with low paid women

They woukd struggle to even it out

However, at least it's encouraging them to look at the sex pay gap with higher paid staff and getting them to check that it is more even at the top...if that makes sense

Although warehouse may well be men heavy...wonder how much they are paid...wonder how i would find out

So is head office..thats men heavy as well i think

Bet it is

It's a completely pointless statistic. It's working out the gender pay gap and not actually 'equal pay'. Completely different things.

I think feminists and the general population have been talking cross purposes on the issue of “pay equality”for years.

Feminists are concerned (and rightly so in my opinion) with the fact men tend to be in jobs that are better more than women, whereas the general population (women included) is more relaxed about this, with their concern saved for where the same job attracts different pay depending on the worker’s sex.

I consider the publication of this data to be only a first step of shining a light on the pay gap. I expect if you were to add a few more comparisons (gender and age, gender and length of service, two that come to mind) there would be many disparities.

Though thanks for giving me yet another reason to avoid the airline concerned.

I wonder when they are going to look at other pay gaps?

BME being a big one.

Currently there is shared and equal paternity leave - it can be split equally between both parent

Not true unfortunately. Shared paternal leave (SPL) can be split but even though many companies now have enhanced maternity pay, very few companies pay enhanced SPL, only statutory pay, so pretty unlikely that it will be taken up.

So is head office..thats men heavy as well i think

Ryanair do not have a head office in the UK.

Ryanair do not have a head office in the UK

Rufus was talking about where she works. Not Ryanair.

Thanks kalapattar

coconutella - exactly! I think people are only slowly waking up to this but there is still a lot of misunderstanding on the underlying causes of the very separate equal pay to gender pay gaps.

It's interesting that the mining industry has a pay gap in favour of women.

I wonder what causes that?

So why exactly are cabin crew paid less than pilots again?

Because a pilot is a much more highly skilled role with a much higher degree of responsibility, therefore commanding a higher rate of remuneration.

Is it really so controversial that pilots attract large salaries?

In the US many pilots do not attract large salaries. It is not inevitable.

Some earn near minimum wage at least when they start.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pilots-minimum-wage_n_4775989

There are lots of reasons for the gender pay gap. Most of it isn't about men being paid more than women for doing the same job (although just because that's against the law (and has been for 40 years) doesn't mean it's not still happening).

There are lots of reasons for the GPG including traditional male & female roles. It's also about how we progress during our careers - there is still a glass ceiling in many sectors even before you factor in having children and the impact that has on women's careers.

IME a lot of very able and talented women are passed over for promotion and progression (or take themselves out of the race) because of factors such as long hours culture, having to work away more, having to be able to go somewhere at the drop of a hat.

The stupid thing is, women have a lot to offer in all sectors and many businesses and other organisations are much worse off as a result,

This was recognised when the targets were set for getting women on boards of big companies.

It's in everybody's interests to keep more women in the workplace and to do that roles and arrangements have to change otherwise working women just cannot do it.

Once upon a time women couldn't work in factories because for one thing there were no toilets. Things had to change. I was asked about that very issue in my first job (employment lawyer). The woman had to use the office toilets. I have also been asked many times how to sack a pregnant woman (first time was in 1997, last time was this year but that's another story...)

It's fine to say more men need to take care of the dc's but for many that's not an option. It's making it workable to have dc's and a career that will make the difference.

The crazy thing is, a working mum with a job that works for them is one of the most reliable employees an employer can have. Employers just need to wise up to that and make the most of it.

And when push comes to shove, remember most of employing people (for a large part of this country at least) is doing what you can get away with.