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AIBU?

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Original poster

I wrote a bit of rude reply on my son's English test!

130 replies

LinoleumBlownapart · 03/04/2018 17:04

Now I'm feeling a bit bad and I can't erase it because I wrote in pen, but my son got 8.75 out of 10 on his English as a second language test (we live abroad) but he chose the only right answer and the teacher marked it wrong. I wrote because I thought maybe she wanted the answer in past perfect! On the second page he got another question wrong, I think she wanted him to write "haven't" but he wrote "don't have". But "My parents haven't a lot of money" sounds wrong, but is it? I'm attaching pictures because I'm confusing myself. AIBU to talk to the teacher or should I let it go and not be one of those parents.

I wrote a bit of rude reply on my son's English test!
I wrote a bit of rude reply on my son's English test!
OP posts:
YouAreTearingMeApartLisa · 03/04/2018 20:31

It says write the verb in the present perfect tense so surely it should be haven't had

kikibo · 03/04/2018 20:56

Then 'haven't ' is definitely wrong.

bringbackfonzi · 03/04/2018 21:02

'haven't had' is right.

BitOutOfPractice · 03/04/2018 21:21

Teams are singular. But in spoken English it is rarely used as a singular.

You're much likely to hear "England are off to the World Cup" than "England is..."

Or "the Scottish team are training for their next match" than "the Scottish team is training for its next match"

It's a bugbear of mine. As is companies I'm using plural. "Google are in trouble for avoiding tax" when it should be "google is..."

When I edited a magazine, it was usual for press releases from companies to start out "John smith Ltd are launching..."

Original poster
LinoleumBlownapart · 03/04/2018 22:54

catinapoolofsunshine that's funny! chocolate that's brilliant!

I've written a little more and said she can ask me to clarify if needed, trying not to be rude. It's not really about my son's grade as that's already in the system and can't be changed anyway. "Hasn't had" is the correct answer for the other question and he will need to make sure he's giving the correct verbal tense in future, he's tripped up before with that, but that was just .25 of a point. The chose/have chosen question was worth a point.

I noticed later that he made the sentence reading "She hasn't written her report yet" into negative as she had actually asked for the verb "write" and "yet" , so his classmates all wrote "she has written her report yet". Her tests are full of these kind of little mistakes and unfortunately I do have to say something. Now I'm going to have to check over all the other tests for all other year groups. Fun fun fun!

OP posts:
Fifthtimelucky · 03/04/2018 23:14

I agree with those who say it should be 'Have not had' for the first question. 'Haven't a lot' sounds a little old fashioned, but I think the first Harry Potter film uses it when Harry goes shopping in Diagon Alley and says 'But Hagrid, I haven't any money'. My children always think this sounds funny.

For the second, 'chose' is clearly the only acceptable option (of those given).

FithColumnist · 03/04/2018 23:29

pepperpot99, you're talking bollocks.

Prescriptively, "my parents haven't a lot of money^ is, of course, acceptable. Simple negation of the verb "to have" in a possessive sense.

Descriptively, however, "my parents haven't a lot of money" is ungrammatical in virtually every current spoken English variety. The verb "to have", when negated has undergone such a degree of semantic bleaching that it is cannot license a non-verbal complement: it's a pure auxiliary and lacks lexical meaning. "Haven't got" and "don't have" are the only current acceptable variants in the overwhelming majority of modern English varieties.

However, it's all a bit moot as the rubric was to put "not have" into the present perfect. So the correct answer should be "My parents haven't had a lot of money".

(MA Linguistics, for what it's worth.)

Also, I think we're all missing the real issue here: what the fuck is up with the teacher's ticks? I mean really?

Original poster
LinoleumBlownapart · 03/04/2018 23:50

Also, I think we're all missing the real issue here: what the fuck is up with the teacher's ticks? I mean really?

Grin I know right?! But those aren't ticks, those are C's for correct. I was a bit Hmm when I first moved here and saw them all over the children's work. I thought the whole world used ticks.

OP posts:
AtSea1979 · 03/04/2018 23:56

No they are not C’s surely. Ticks or C’s they are still messy.

bringbackfonzi · 04/04/2018 00:13

Fithcolumnist Your last post is very interesting. Isn't haven't + noun often used by Irish speakers (of English), though? Also, does 'no' count as negation? Because 'I have no idea' etc is common.

hunibuni · 04/04/2018 00:34

I used to have to take English as a second language as a native speaker. That stopped when I was marked down by 2 marks for answering a question that could be interpreted and answered in 2 ways. I took it up with the English teacher who insisted his (American English) answer was correct and was most miffed to be corrected by the native English teacher (from County Cork lol) that my (UK) answer was equally correct. I think he was glad to see the back of me and I never had to attend another class for the next 3 years. God, I was a PITA 15 year old but I was damned if I was losing marks Grin

Battleax · 04/04/2018 00:40

TEFL abroad often teach that extremely formal English that sounds slightly stilted stilted to British ears. British Council lessons are also slightly obsessed with “high tea, scones & tiffin” type content. Shades of the Mitfords.

You’ll have to resign yourself to it, and explain to him that this is hyper-correct usage he’s being taught, hence the difference from informal spoken English.

Jozxyqk · 04/04/2018 00:52

I wonder how many students got the "had chosen" question correct... I'm guessing none, since it wasn't one of the options.

Okadas · 04/04/2018 05:10

Scottish/Northern Irish girl here. I (we?), would say "haven't" in that context. I haven't a lot of money. We haven't any food in for dinner. I haven't a lot of time. Right or wrong, I don't know, but those are the words he was told to use in the parentheses.

The problem with the other question is we don't know when "the beginning of the season" is. Has it passed? Is it now?

"It is the beginning of the season and the team have chosen the name of the team." would make more sense. Or even "The team at the beginning of the season have chosen the name of the team." Repeating "the team" sounds clunky also. Why not "their name"?

I probably would have (had?) gone (went??) with what your son (had/did!?!) chose (whaaa!) and said "chose". But I think your "had chosen" was not necessarily correct. Or maybe that should be I don't think your "had chosen" is necessarily correct.

I need chocolate, but I haven't any...

flumpybear · 04/04/2018 06:13

I think I'd be asking to speak to the head if her grasp of English is this poor! She's telling somebody who is right to do it wrong!

Step · 04/04/2018 07:07

Teachers make mistakes, and the OP is fine questioning her.

I corrected my eldest son's German homework after it had been marked, pointed out the errors which were horrendous. The teacher thanked me and we struck up a relationship where she asked for help, which I freely gave to the class. Worked out well....

2ndSopranos · 04/04/2018 07:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sashh · 04/04/2018 07:25

I can't read the blooming thing too well, however I am going to, sort of, disagree.

To me that looks like a lesson in contractions and the words to be contracted are in brackets so, although he is right, he has not done what the teacher wanted.

have not contracts to haven't.

It might be worth asking what he has to do in the exam/leaving qualification.

I think a nice polite email may be in order.

beresh · 04/04/2018 07:25

Present perfect is really difficult even for teachers with an excellent level of English and it's not easy for native speakers to explain the rules!

My DC's English teacher made just the same error as the chose/has chosen question in marking an English test. I wrote a polite reply with an extract from a grammar book that explains that we don't use present perfect when the sentence refers to a finished point in time that has no link to the present, in this case " at the beginning of the season". In this sentence, "the beginning" is over, whereas "The team has chosen a name this season" would be fine.

The simple past "chose" that your child wrote is correct. "had chosen" would need there to be a second part of the sentence in the simple past, I would try to tippex out your comment!

For the other question, "haven't had" is the only correct response for "have" in the present perfect, even though in normal usage we would add a link to the present, such as 'this year' or 'since I was born'.

In my child's case, the teacher wrote a reply saying she was grateful for the explanation, I don't think it is necessarily rude for native speakers to make corrections.

StormTreader · 04/04/2018 10:12

"OP - you are rather vulgar and picky to call the teacher out."

Is anyone else giggling at pepper saying this, and then spending the rest of the thread shouting at people that they are all wrong? Grin

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 10:32

Present perfect is a nightmare to teach.
First we teach that it is used when there is no precise time reference, (compare ..I've been ski-ing/ I went skiing in 1999.)

So when students have a grip of that, we move on to tell them that actually we CAN use a time reference as long as we also use since/for.

'I've been skiing since 1999'. 'I've been skiing for 10 years'.

Nightmare. an awful lot of native speakers would be hard pushed to explain it.

kikibo · 04/04/2018 14:30

From the very beginning we were always taught the present perfect as the result of an action started in the past.

I have opened the door (it was closed and now it's open)
I have lived here for 18 years (I moved here in 2000 and I'm still living here now)
I have lived here since 2000

All other rules are confusing unless it's for young children who can't understand the definition.

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 14:59

yes that is one aspect of Present Perfect..the problem is that there is more than one....
Actually I think present perfect should be banned.

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 15:13

in fact that aspect of Present Perfect is more something that happened in the past that has some connection with the present.

eg I have broken my leg ..(sitting in a plaster cast)

The cat has killed my hamster! (dead hamster in cage with cat bite marks on it)

Caribou58 · 04/04/2018 17:35

Only 'chose' works of those 4 options. The teacher is wrong.

Don't have or haven't got is the usual way of saying this in English these days (I'm a retired secondary English teacher). The option the teacher wanted is archaic - surely we're teaching children, especially those for whom English is not their first language, to communicate effectively in good English?

Zounds and forsooth!

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