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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Whilst

71 replies

Movablefeast · 03/04/2018 16:43

It may be grammatically correct to use but makes my teeth grind when I see it written down. It is used so often on MN but I never hear it used in real life. It just seems so pretentious and obnoxious. I read constantly and it also rarely used in fiction and non-fiction.

Just need to rant about a highly irritating word!

OP posts:
jellycat1 · 04/04/2018 09:57

Ok slice I'll accept that, but only because you're a fellow jelly. I should I say fello jello Smile

MereDintofPandiculation · 04/04/2018 10:37

There are two past participles for many English verbs (I think that's what they're called - I've forgotten wink). Like to go has I went and I have gone. But to get only has got. In American English to get also has gotten. We frown upon that. It's two ways of forming a past tense: simple past "I went", compound past using an auxiliary verb and a participle "I have been" "I had gone". Probably not using right terms.

Strange how wrong it feels to use "forgot" as a participle, "Should auld acquaintance be forgot" "I see no reason why gunpowder treason should ever be forgot".

RoseWhiteTips · 04/04/2018 10:55

I use “whilst”. I like it.

RoseWhiteTips · 04/04/2018 10:57

Gotten is ancient. Oh - but don’t blame the Americans...

MorningsEleven · 04/04/2018 10:57

Myself really gets me.

I bought myself a new coat - fine.

Myself and DH like hotdogs - rage!

And cue. Grrrr.

RoseWhiteTips · 04/04/2018 10:58

I use “amongst” too.

Trinity66 · 04/04/2018 11:01

*'Gotten' is a funny one. It's an Americanism.

There are two past participles for many English verbs (I think that's what they're called - I've forgotten wink). Like to go has I went and I have gone. But to get only has got. In American English to get also has gotten. We frown upon that.

We should not, however, be quite so pompous: to forget? Yes, we say I have forGOTTEN.*

It isn't it's a word that apparently English people don't use anymore. I was reading a blog on FB by an Irish peron in America and I was surprised when loads of the comments said "Oh he isn't Irish, he's Irish American, only Americans say "gotten" " but that's not true we use it here in Ireland still (also I think some Scottish people said they used it aswell

Skatingfastonthinice · 04/04/2018 11:05

I’m with Cavender. I’ve worked for years, surrounded by teachers who use pacifically, it’s as a possessive, effect and other grammatical atrocities. I manage to control my wincing, as they do when I use whilst and whom and contemporary.

Trinity66 · 04/04/2018 11:05

*person

jellycat1 · 04/04/2018 11:06

Ah I didn't realise any of the below. Happy to stand corrected :)

echt · 04/04/2018 11:09

Impact is wrong usage that has become common usage

Unfortunately it is entirely correct. Fugly but correct.

IVflytrap · 04/04/2018 11:11

I thought while and whilst are different too. While is to do with time - as in something happening at the same time as something else. Whilst is juxtaposition, with it happening as well as (but not necessarily at the same time) or in stead of.

I've seen people complain about whilst on other sites, but they tend to be Americans who say it's British and therefore pretentious. Which is ironic, because I'm fairly sure whilst is a dialect form over here, and "while" is considered the "proper, correct" version.

Whizbang · 04/04/2018 11:19

‘Literally’ when used for emphasis. Aargh!

‘....and I was so angry that my head was literally exploding’.

Really? Now that I would like to see!

LadyFairfaxSake · 04/04/2018 11:19

So...

Bluelady · 04/04/2018 11:27

I'm a great fan of plain English. There's no need for "whilst".

DailyWailSucksSnails · 04/04/2018 11:40

I'm furrin so Whilst is one of those things I just suck up, like "pressurise", the Royal Family & binge drinking sessions on Friday nights in city centres. These Are Weird Things You Brits Do.

Gotten is perfectly sensible, though. You philistines to think otherwise. Wink

LifeBeginsAtGin · 04/04/2018 12:00

While and among just sound so much nicer and clearer English. Sticking the "t" on the end just seems fussy and unnecessary.

No, it doesn't. Sticking a 't' on the end is correct. We don't go around randomly omitting letter from words.

If you don't like it, don't use it, make yourself look uneducated.

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 12:23

'gotten' is fine.

'forget/forgot/forgotten'
'get/got/gotten'

Myself/yourself really winds me up, especially from telephone sales people.

'Mrs Dull? Is that yourself?'...makes me grind my teeth with rage. Once I said, 'you don't need a reflexive pronoun there' but there was just confused silence on the phone...:)

'Impact' as a verb really annoys me.

Whilst is annoying too.

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 12:24

I work as an academic proofreader and invariably change 'whilst' to 'while'.

MorningsEleven · 04/04/2018 12:27

These Are Weird Things You Brits Do

Grin
RoseWhiteTips · 04/04/2018 12:42

Ahem...

Many UK readers have wondered about–and objected strongly to–the use of the word ‘gotten’ in my books. Since the word is not in common usage in England right now, it seems odd to them to read it at all, and a glaring ‘Americanism’ in a book set in the medieval period. At first glance, this might appear to be yet another instance of ‘two countries separated by a common language,’ but as it turns out, the history of the word ‘gotten’ is a lot more interesting than that.

Gotten’ is, in fact, an English word that was in use in England at the time America was colonized by the English. It is found in the King James version of the Bible, and maybe even because of that, over the centuries, the Americans kept on using it and the English did not.

Origin: 1150-1200(v.) Middle English geten < Old Norse geta to obtain, beget; cognate with Old English –gietan (> Middle English yeten), German-gessen, in vergessen to forget; (noun) Middle English: something gotten, offspring, derivative of the v. dictionary.reference.com/browse/gotten

“British English discontinued the use of “have gotten” as a form of the past participle for “get” over 300 years ago. The British Colonies on the other hand continued to use it. As a result American English continued the use of “have gotten” while British English relegated the word to obsolescence. It is now rarely used in the British version of the English language. American English continues to use “have gotten” to emphasis the action performed. In American English language “has got” implies possession. It is assumed that if “has got” is used that it is referencing what the person has in their possession. On the other hand, “has gotten” implies that the person acquired, received or obtained an item.” www.reference.com/motif/reference/is-gotten-grammatically-correct also: www.pbs.org/speak/ahead/change/ruining/

“Just seeing the word is enough to set the hair of some British English speakers on end. Yet, despite the many claims that it is an Americanism, it is most definitely of British origin and the Oxford English Dictionary traces its first use to the 4th century.

Since then, it has been used by many notable British English writers, including Shakespeare, Bacon and Pope and it was one of a number of words that were transported across the Atlantic with the settlers. But then it slipped out of use in British English, along with such words as fall for “autumn” (British English having opted to adopt the French word) and guess in the sense of “think”.” www.miketodd.net/encyc/gotten.htm

‘Got’ is also used in Welsh–or at least as much of it as I have so far managed to learn. ‘I have got’ (mae gen i) is a common phrase in modern Welsh and even has its own system of conjugation (you have got, he has got). Of course, my medieval characters aren’t speaking English anyway, so whether they might have used ‘got’ as well as ‘gotten’, like their English counterparts, is something I don’t know! However, if my medieval characters were speaking English (which they generally are not), they would have used, ‘gotten’.

And for those who continue to be skeptical, perhaps a few quotes from Francis Bacon (written 1601) will suffice:

“This envy, being in the Latin word invidia, goeth in the modern language, by the name of discontentment; of which we shall speak, in handling sedition. It is a disease, in a state, like to infection. For as infection spreadeth upon that which is sound, and tainteth it; so when envy is gotten once into a state, it traduceth even the best actions thereof, and turneth them into an ill odor. And therefore there is little won, by intermingling of plausible actions. For that doth argue but a weakness, and fear of envy, which hurteth so much the more, as it is likewise usual in infections; which if you fear them, you call them upon you.” ‘Of Envy’

“And because it works better, when anything seemeth to be gotten from you by question, than if you offer it of yourself, you may lay a bait for a question, by showing another visage, and countenance, than you are wont; to the end to give occasion, for the party to ask, what the matter is of the change? As Nehemias did; And I had not before that time, been sad before the king.” ‘Of Cunning’

“Meaning that riches gotten by good means, and just labor, pace slowly … Riches gotten by service, though it be of the best rise, yet when they are gotten by flattery, feeding humors, and other servile conditions, they may be placed amongst the worst.” ‘Of Riches’

oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/bacon/bacon_essays.html

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 12:45

my friend from the West Country (of England) invariably uses 'gotten'...

RoseWhiteTips · 04/04/2018 12:47

LifeBeginsAtGin

While and among just sound so much nicer and clearer English. Sticking the "t" on the end just seems fussy and unnecessary.

No, it doesn't. Sticking a 't' on the end is correct. We don't go around randomly omitting letter from words.

If you don't like it, don't use it, make yourself look uneducated.

👍🏻

DullAndOld · 04/04/2018 12:51

talking about what is 'correct' and 'incorrect' makes you look uneducated to be honest.

There ARE no rules in English! There is NO academy having meetings to discuss what is wrong or right, or which new word should be permitted.

That is one of its strengths as a world language, over French and Spanish, for example, both of which have academies.

I can't hear 'whilst' without imagining it in a Yorkshire accent tbh.

Skatingfastonthinice · 04/04/2018 12:51

A number of 17-19th century Border ballads use ‘gotten’

My grandmother would say ‘Skating, is that Yourself?’ if we were on the phone, but she was West coast Scots, not English. Himself is still used as a term for your husband by some.