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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Socialism

28 replies

ThePlanetGoesOnBeingRound3 · 02/04/2018 20:22

AIBU for thinking that anyone who is a Labour voter, who thinks that not voting Labour and supporting the shift back to it’s roots, should ignore the negative media reports because this is a battle that we must win?

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/04/2018 20:28

I am not a Labour supporter but perhaps you could explain why it should shift back to its roots and why this would be a good thing? Seems to me the party was improving dramatically, until the recent Momentum hostile takeover, to drag it backwards.

Arapaima · 02/04/2018 20:28

If you mean that as a Labour voter (i.e. a socialist) you should always support the Labour Party no matter what, then no I don't agree with you.

DairyisClosed · 02/04/2018 20:31

YABU for writing a completely incomprehensible post in IABU.

redexpat · 02/04/2018 20:37

I dont want to vote for people who dont address anti semitism and dont want to listen to my views because I am a woman. If that means splitting the left vote and the tories coming through the middle again well maybe labour should have thought of that before abandoning me and 51% of the population. I simply dont trust them to represent my interests anymore.

Schnauzermum2 · 02/04/2018 20:43

Not sure any party should just go back to it’s roots which were formed in an entirely different socio-economic landscape. People should support the attitudes and policies of a party that they feel most aligned to. Many feel alienated by the raciest and sexist attitudes and policies running rife and unchecked in the Labour Party at the moment. Therefore it would be wrong to expect people to support them regardless. Jc had his best chance at the last election and it was fluffed. Unfortunately for him people now have several tears to witness his repeated fuck ups. He will not win next time. Labour should get someone middle ground to try and mend the damage before the next election

Original poster
ThePlanetGoesOnBeingRound3 · 02/04/2018 20:47

I'm a woman. Minus cis, minus natal.
I'm a long term member of the Labour Party, 1978, I endured Blair and New Labour.

OP posts:
NewYearNewMe18 · 02/04/2018 20:48

National Socialist German Workers’ Party tells me everything I need to know about socialism, Labour an its anti-Semitic views.

There is no difference between extreme left and extreme right.

TERFousBreakdown · 02/04/2018 20:49

Like others, I'm not quite sure what you mean.

But if what you're trying to say is that those of us who favour socialist or social democratic positions must never stray from the party because ... reasons: I vehemently disagree!

The reason why I've been a life-long Labour supporter (minus a few years during which I boycotted Blair over Iraq) is because it has been the party best aligned with my ideals. My support for the LP has never been unconditional and has always depended on shared goals and the absence of deal-breakers.

That latter part, thanks to the likes of LM, bromentum, some stuff that even I as an ardent supporter of Palestinian rights find indisputably anti-Semitic and a vile, bitter taste of sensationalist populism in what the LP has been up to, is no longer the case.

I won't support this party just like I wouldn't be friends with someone who's unkind to waiters just because we happen to enjoy the same food.

I'm now politically homeless.

Original poster
ThePlanetGoesOnBeingRound3 · 02/04/2018 21:00

Yes, I agree 'we've ' lost our way, but it's a fight that must happen from within.
Mightily pissed off with the anti-Semitic argument but have discovered, not in my environment, social media, places where it is allowed.
Totally pissed off with LM situation but can only chug on from within,
It's a fight.
That's it.
It's a fight.
I keep fighting.

OP posts:
HateIsNotGood · 02/04/2018 21:05

Clause 4. Labour became New Labour when it dropped Clause 4 - its commitment to 'socialism - from it's Manifesto. Can't remember exactly when - 1992-4?.

I think it would be interesting and informative if all Party Members - one vote per individual member only (no Bloc voting) - were to vote on Re-instating Clause 4.

Original poster
ThePlanetGoesOnBeingRound3 · 02/04/2018 21:05

@NewYearNewMe18 The Labour Party isn't extreme left.
In European politics, it's middle of the road.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThePlanetGoesOnBeingRound3 · 02/04/2018 21:09

I'm more left than the middle.
I like clause 4 as an ideal to strive toward but not an ideology.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 02/04/2018 21:28

What to reinstate what was written 100 years ago

mercurymaze · 02/04/2018 21:30

i like jc he talks alot of sense, i have yet to find evidence to NOT vote for him

Moussemoose · 02/04/2018 21:34

The Labour Party is not a socialist party, it is a party of labour, formed from trade unionism.

Some socialist join the party but the Labour Party should be about improving the living conditions of the working classes.

As a party of the left it should prioritise the fight against extremism and oppose prejudice, antisemitism, for example.

mercurymaze · 02/04/2018 21:39

or perhaps no-where to working class people to live, low wages, schools being asked to force kids to be academic at a silly low age...

there are very pressing priorities around education and housing and wages that need to be addressed...

WhalesOfYore · 02/04/2018 21:39

And this, kids, is what happens when people join cults.

Moussemoose · 02/04/2018 21:40

Main stream political party is a cult?

Grow up.

Shoxfordian · 02/04/2018 21:43

Its never had a woman leader
There's documented anti semetic views
Jc didn't think Russia were involved with the recent poisoning to begin with

I wouldn't vote for any of this nonsense

NewYearNewMe18 · 02/04/2018 21:45

Momentum isn't 'middle of the road' and that is the infiltration

WhalesOfYore · 02/04/2018 21:46

Nothing "mainstream" about the Labour Party today!

Mawalls · 02/04/2018 21:56

Keir Hardie was anti European immigration, he felt they depressed workers wages.

IS that what you mean?

Moussemoose · 02/04/2018 21:58

The Labour Party has, and has always had left wing elements.

The Conservative party has, and has always had some right wing elements.

The Liberal party has, and has always had some very liberal members.

They are all mainstream parties.

Extreme Brexit views are not middle of the road. BJ's racism is not middle of the road. JRM is in no way middle of the road. The party they belong to is mainstream though.

Retain perspective. I am critical of the response to antisemitism in the Labour Party but it would be silly and hyperbolic to call it a cult.

UpstartCrow · 02/04/2018 22:08

YABU. I'm a Socialist and would no more support Labour under Momentum than I would under any other extremist group. We can't win back the party from within.

Most people support patriarchy and misogyny, and care more about that than they do Socialism. Thats why Labour are in a mess, and its why the Tories keep winning.

We need politicians with integrity such as John Smith and Jo Cox. And there aren't any that I can see, in any party.

moofolk · 02/04/2018 22:14

It is really hard OP. Yes I feel hugely let down by the Labour Party.
I'm a socialist feminist and this abandonment of class analysis in favour of eg self ID (personal embodiment of neoliberalism) is sickening.
I'm on the list to resign from the party if the NEC make the announcement.

However - what option do we realistically have? There is no way I would ever vote Tory, or lib dem.

But they know that. That's why they don't feel the need to please us.

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